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Author Topic: BeThere - Sync and Speeds Discussion  (Read 19266 times)

jabns

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Re: BeThere - Sync and Speeds Discussion
« Reply #45 on: May 23, 2008, 11:05:03 AM »

 :'(

I will do some more testing tonight and see what the results are but I can't mess to much because my sisters needs it to measure her contractions or something(All I know is I am going to be an uncle in a few days  ;D).
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mr_chris

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Re: BeThere - Sync and Speeds Discussion
« Reply #46 on: May 23, 2008, 03:28:26 PM »

I know it's a bit late, but re: 3.5dB SNR - the default SNR on Be is 6.5, not 6 - so perhaps the "3dB profile" actually sets 3.5dB

Rizla, UKO possibly use a lower Interleaving depth than Be, which could account for slightly higher sync? Just a thought :)
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Chris

jabns

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Re: BeThere - Sync and Speeds Discussion
« Reply #47 on: May 25, 2008, 11:57:05 AM »

Just a quick update as I have just got an email back from ookla:

Quote
James,

Our software uses 2 parallel threads for each (upload & download).
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mr_chris

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Re: BeThere - Sync and Speeds Discussion
« Reply #48 on: May 25, 2008, 02:10:46 PM »

Interesting - just had a look - and I'm not sure that it does, certainly on the bbmax speedtester.

Netstat shows two connections established, but one to lb1.namesco.net which appears to be just the webpage, and then when you run the test another connection to gonzales.namesco.net is opened.

Interestingly, speedtest.net appears to use two threads - and the London server is the same as the bbmax one anyway - so perhaps speedtest.net using the London server will give better results than the bbmax speedtester, which only uses one thread.

Good for testing single vs multi-threaded performance, i guess... however I find usenet a better multi-threaded tester anyway ;)
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Chris

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Re: BeThere - Sync and Speeds Discussion
« Reply #49 on: May 25, 2008, 08:45:14 PM »

Rizla, UKO possibly use a lower Interleaving depth than Be, which could account for slightly higher sync? Just a thought :)

I think they both use a default depth of 64 Chris.

On reflection I think I know what it is. Be had a few tones blocked for some reason up around tone 456 or so IIRC. That'd be enough to explain the difference I think.

James you have my sympathies. I would suggest that the only realistic thing to do is to switch ISP to UKO as that way you can get SRA working on the lines. I had (still do to some extent) local noise issues and had to run my Be line at a margin of around 9dB to ensure it was stable. Since moving to UKO the line stays up for months at a time with a margin of around 6.5dB.

The downside of course is that they only offer 16/1Mbps.

I still can't understand why neither Be or UKO enable SRA as default. At least on UKO you can turn it on but I just don't understand Be/O2 :(
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mr_chris

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Re: BeThere - Sync and Speeds Discussion
« Reply #50 on: May 26, 2008, 11:06:19 PM »

On reflection I think I know what it is. Be had a few tones blocked for some reason up around tone 456 or so IIRC. That'd be enough to explain the difference I think.

Yes, that struck me after I'd posted actually, after seeing Kitz's SNR graph with a nice big gap, I take it UKO don't have the same gap - and if that's the case I really can't understand Be's reasoning behind it.

SRA seems like a very useful feature that's disabled. It must be disabled for a reason... but I can't think why, and I don't really know enough about how it works (and any potential pitfalls!)

On the surface it does seem daft that it's disabled by default, and quite annoying that it simply isn't an option on Be. I did at first think it might be that some cheaper routers with a dodgy ADSL2+ implementation had been found not to handle SRA very well, but then of course Be and O2 send you a router, which you'd hope they might have tested to see how well SRA works.

So it remains a mystery - answers on a postcard!! ;)
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Chris

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Re: BeThere - Sync and Speeds Discussion
« Reply #51 on: May 27, 2008, 01:51:59 AM »

UKO don't have the same gap now but I'm sure they did when I first joined. Hmmm I wonder if that was just on the Speedtouch and not the Netgear. I can't remember now.
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kitz

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Re: BeThere - Sync and Speeds Discussion
« Reply #52 on: May 28, 2008, 06:02:33 PM »

>> I think I know what it is. Be had a few tones blocked for some reason up around tone 456 or so IIRC.

I bet without a doubt that it is - hence me mentioning it earlier in the thread that Be/o2 block tones 476-499. I'm not aware of any other LLU2+ provider doing this (UKO/Sky/Bulldog etc).

Those blocked tones are now whats stopping me from getting the full 24Mb down now Im on Annex-M, which I could when on Annex-A.  The additional upstream to 2680kbps has meant my down is limited to 23Mbps.

Bit bleeding pointless because theres no real reason I can see why on earth they are blocked... the excuse of "those frequencies cause problems" doesnt wash, because anyone on a decent line now gets tail off at even higher frequencies ..  which are even more susceptible to noise than those blocked frequencies.  :-X
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mr_chris

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Re: BeThere - Sync and Speeds Discussion
« Reply #53 on: May 28, 2008, 09:09:01 PM »

Those blocked tones are now whats stopping me from getting the full 24Mb down now Im on Annex-M, which I could when on Annex-A.  The additional upstream to 2680kbps has meant my down is limited to 23Mbps.

Oh you poor, unfortunate individual, having such a slow internet connection - you have my sympathies :lol: :-X
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Chris

kitz

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Re: BeThere - Sync and Speeds Discussion
« Reply #54 on: May 28, 2008, 11:27:41 PM »

>> Oh you poor, unfortunate individual, having such a slow internet connection - you have my sympathies

lol  :P

I know youre jealous :D
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guest

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Re: BeThere - Sync and Speeds Discussion
« Reply #55 on: May 29, 2008, 10:46:26 AM »

Bit bleeding pointless because theres no real reason I can see why on earth they are blocked

I do. They are right in the middle of a bit of spectrum used by the UK military - in fact they are having to use this more now due to new equipment that simply doesn't work as specced.

I can't in fact see how the other providers are permitted to use these tones and I think that Be/O2 are correct to block them.
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kitz

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Re: BeThere - Sync and Speeds Discussion
« Reply #56 on: May 29, 2008, 11:38:59 AM »

There was a rumour at one point saying that they were allocated to emergency marine frequencies or something..  but I'm sure it was later found that that was a red herring.

I cant remember where it was I read that - I'll see if I can find it and post back the link.
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kitz

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Re: BeThere - Sync and Speeds Discussion
« Reply #57 on: May 29, 2008, 12:04:10 PM »

Unfortunately I cant link to the thread where I saw the discussion since you have to be an (ISP) member to login and view.


Theres a bit of info here..  that predeceeds the real discussion going on in the Be Forum.

The first answer from Be was the Maritime frequencies but when that was disapproved..

(2174·5 kHz Global Maritime Distress and Safety System (GMDSS) distress and safety traffic by NBDP.)

.... they later came back with this

Quote
We carry out extensive testing with our network vendor to produce a fast, stable network. As part of this testing, we have identified a number of frequencies that commonly affect the stability of broadband lines, usually due to significant fluctuation of noise in these frequencies. This can affect the stability of a broadband line. This results in certain frequencies which have been identified as causing significant stability or noise issues being masked out - tones 476 to 499 fall into this category.

Theres been several "debates" as to why that doesnt stand up (the original thread was locked and others opened).
It has been ascertained that other LLU ISPs dont block it.
As yet there has been no response from Be.


--------
Edit - apologies there was a reply in another thread from Brett after users asked if individual lines could request removal of this block..

Quote
We have all had the update from the Network manager and take is our stand on this issue "we will not be unblocking these gaps on request" this is not a service we can offer.

Now this does not mean that we can not revisit this topic later in the year but as for now our road map is full, full of exciting new "services/tools" which have assigned resource’s to launch them.
« Last Edit: May 29, 2008, 12:28:09 PM by kitz »
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guest

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Re: BeThere - Sync and Speeds Discussion
« Reply #58 on: May 29, 2008, 12:45:57 PM »

You need to look at the UK frequency allocation chart, not any international ones.

Try looking at this one - http://www.onlineconversion.com/downloads/uk_frequency_allocations_chart.pdf

Zoom in to 400% and you'll find a little slot from 2173.5kHz to 2190.5kHz labelled "Mobile". Rather disingenuous that ;)
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kitz

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Re: BeThere - Sync and Speeds Discussion
« Reply #59 on: May 29, 2008, 10:29:42 PM »

Was looking at the UK Frequency Allocation Table http://www.ofcom.org.uk/radiocomms/isu/ukfat/ukfat07.pdf

>> Zoom in to 400% and you'll find a little slot from 2173.5kHz to 2190.5kHz labelled "Mobile". Rather disingenuous that

If there is something at 2173.5 to 2190.5kHz (which would possibly include the Global Maritime Distress), ....
then why block 2053kHz to 2156kHz?...  Because Im using the frequencies both before and after the blocked range.
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