Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[johnson]

I would switch the modem/router off while you are away. As I understand it if there is no data flowing the DLM counts each time period as null for calculation purposes and given the unsatisfactory nature of your line it would be better for you to monitor any changes as they happen.

To comment on your line, I would be miffed at even 25-30mbit given your estimate. Best to get an engineer out before making improvements yourself, but depending on your wiring as it is now there could be a decent improvement by moving the modem next to the socket and using the shortest (twisted) RJ11 cable etc... but I guess maybe thats already the case for you.

Are you running dslstats to monitor your line 24/7? If not I highly recommend it. Could be an intermittent noise source that you have been getting unlucky with during resyncs or some such. Even if not, the picture you have of the line will be so much more detailed with its data.

[re0]

I am quite surprised that the estimate is seemingly so much higher than your line can actually support. Even with 3 dB SNRM profile (if your line can deal with such a small margin), it seems unlikely that you'd be able to meet the minimum speed defined in the "clean" range (though the lower end estimate of 24 Mbps from PN seems in reach). Though what I can say is that your sync speeds seem about right for your attenuation and parameters set by the DLM.

I think if you report this as a fault, the most that will happen is an OR engineer will come out, check the line, swap the pair and probably hand you the conclusion that there is no fault. Don't let this discourage you though since you are currently receiving under what the ISP estimated. In the case where no improvements can be made they will probably offer you the ability to leave with no penalty (though it's probably not the result you want).

To give a better insight, perhaps you could provide some graphs from HG612 Modem Stats or a similar program that shows Hlog, Bitloading (with SNR) and QLN?

[Chrysalis]

It isnt surprising, the estimate from BTw is a very wide estimate because of the wide possible affects of crosstalk.  Noone has a right to a crosstalk free line, so its a lottery which end of crosstalk severity you get, if you unlucky on the crosstalk lottery the line is going to be way way below the maximum estimate, yes in 10s of mbits.

The estimate provided by plusnet is not that far above his actual sync speed, on the original days of DLM when we had no g.inp and no xDB profiles, so lines basically started as fast as they could get, there would be immediate merit in raising a low speed fault, but now on hawei cabinets that is no longer the case and estimates will reflect that lines can run at lower margins and with g.inp activated.

It is unfortunate he was advised on here to fiddle with his line so early as I considered that not a good idea, the reason is that DLM will be more sensitive to changes in the first 1-2 days, for that reason alone I would not fiddle with a line at all in that period, and now knowing we have the enhanced DLM for hauwei cabinets, unless there was a very big problem I would not touch the line until the profile settles. Personally I would be keeping it powered up on your break.  DSL is an always on technology and this becomes more important when DLM is used.

I am curious what plusnet advised as that hasnt been said yet.

re0 the BTw estimate has no relevance to his contract, only the plusnet estimate does.

He has no contract with BT wholesale.  He is a customer of plusnet. So his estimate is 24Mbps to 36Mbps in terms of what his isp is willing to support.

[re0]

It isnt surprising, the estimate from BTw is a very wide estimate because of the wide possible affects of crosstalk.  Noone has a right to a crosstalk free line, so its a lottery which end of crosstalk severity you get, if you unlucky on the crosstalk lottery the line is going to be way way below the maximum estimate, yes in 10s of mbits.

Perhaps I should have worded my previous message differently. I probably should have said it would be surprising if these estimates were provided on a cabinet which had been activated for a while (so it would have more data to work on). I do not know exactly when his cabinet was enabled or how BTw collects stats for its estimates, but I know that estimates on the DSL Checker are changeable.

re0 the BTw estimate has no relevance to his contract, only the plusnet estimate does.

He has no contract with BT wholesale.  He is a customer of plusnet. So his estimate is 24Mbps to 36Mbps in terms of what his isp is willing to support.

To defend myself, I never exclusively stated anywhere that the BTw estimates had relevance in his contract or that the his contract was with BTw:

... it seems unlikely that you'd be able to meet the minimum speed defined in the "clean" range (though the lower end estimate of 24 Mbps from PN seems in reach) ...

... you are currently receiving under what the ISP estimated. In the case where no improvements can be made they will probably offer you the ability to leave with no penalty ...

Where PN stands for Plusnet.

[renluop]

Hi again!
Here are the requested graphs taken this morning. I hope they're what is wanted. The cable in use is 3M Metre RJ11 to RJ11 High Speed ADSL BroadBand Cable Made Using Cat 5e Twisted Pair, bought from Techware Games via Amazon, when the SSFP was fitted. It replaced 2 metre ISP's flat.
Cabinets There are 2 serving my PCP- the original ECI and a newer Huawei From Code Look

Code: [Select]

FTTC Available from 28th September 2011, expanded 19th January 2017  Phase 06a 2011  I am on the Huawei. Have I missed anything? If you want more info, let me know before Tuesday, or from Friday next.

OT I have been plotting a diagram of speed estimates of my and nearby roads. It's a hunch that the other side of the cul-de-sac takes the expected route, but my side comes from the opposite direction.

[j0hn]

If you really want Plusnet to send an engineer to try get your speed up a bit then you need to do it fairly quickly.
DLM has already put you on a 5dB profile. It will drop to 4dB in the next day or 2.
By the time it gets to 3dB (4-6 days?) DLM will probably have squeezed you into the 24Mb estimate. Plusnet won't do anything after this.

[NewtronStar]

My guesstimate based on Google is ~1250 to 1320 metres.

I would like renluop to find the metallic distance from his premises to PCP cabinet or at least an estimate and not as the crow fly's by taking a walk the BT joints covers on the footpath to the PCP cab will be visible, these attenuation numbers coming from the modem can be misleading as to the distance.

as a reference my attenuation of 24.8dB it's 1Km or 1000 meters to PCP cabinet downstream sync rate 39999 kbps with G.INP and 4dB on XdB

[renluop]

If you really want Plusnet to send an engineer to try get your speed up a bit then you need to do it fairly quickly.
DLM has already put you on a 5dB profile. It will drop to 4dB in the next day or 2.
By the time it gets to 3dB (4-6 days?) DLM will probably have squeezed you into the 24Mb estimate. Plusnet won't do anything after this.

Oh dear! We're away Tuesday morning to Thursday evening!
Resync'd today.

Code: [Select]

adsl info --stats
adsl: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: Showtime
Last Retrain Reason:    0
Last initialization procedure status:   0
Max:    Upstream rate = 5510 Kbps, Downstream rate = 24008 Kbps
Bearer: 0, Upstream rate = 5510 Kbps, Downstream rate = 23156 Kbps
Bearer: 1, Upstream rate = 0 Kbps, Downstream rate = 0 Kbps
Link Power State:       L0
Mode:                   VDSL2 Annex B
VDSL2 Profile:          Profile 17a
TPS-TC:                 PTM Mode(0x0)
Trellis:                U:ON /D:ON
Line Status:            No Defect
Training Status:        Showtime
                Down            Up
SNR (dB):        4.5             6.2
Attn(dB):        26.2            0.0
Pwr(dBm):        11.7            6.1

                        VDSL2 framing
                        Bearer 0
MSGc:           -6              26
B:              227             159
M:              1               1
T:              0               40
R:              14              12
S:              0.3132          0.9210
L:              6182            1494
D:              4               1
I:              242             86
N:              242             172
Q:              4               0
V:              0               0
RxQueue:                56              0
TxQueue:                14              0
G.INP Framing:          18              0
G.INP lookback:         14              0
RRC bits:               0               24
                        Bearer 1
MSGc:           90              -6
B:              0               0
M:              2               0
T:              2               0
R:              16              0
S:              10.6667         0.0000
L:              24              0
D:              1               0
I:              32              0
N:              32              0
Q:              0               0
V:              0               0
RxQueue:                0               0
TxQueue:                0               0
G.INP Framing:          0               0
G.INP lookback:         0               0
RRC bits:               0               0

                        Counters
                        Bearer 0
OHF:            0               60714
OHFErr:         0               0
RS:             7099448         2427750
RSCorr:         34              0
RSUnCorr:       0               0
                        Bearer 1
OHF:            34801           0
OHFErr:         0               0
RS:             208436          0
RSCorr:         0               0
RSUnCorr:       0               0

                        Retransmit Counters
rtx_tx:         3097            0
rtx_c:          4               0
rtx_uc:         0               0

                        G.INP Counters
LEFTRS:         0               0
minEFTR:        23148           0
errFreeBits:    197326          0

                        Bearer 0
HEC:            0               0
OCD:            0               0
LCD:            0               0
Total Cells:    24892515                0
Data Cells:     8990            0
Drop Cells:     0
Bit Errors:     0               0

                        Bearer 1
HEC:            0               0
OCD:            0               0
LCD:            0               0
Total Cells:    0               0
Data Cells:     0               0
Drop Cells:     0
Bit Errors:     0               0

ES:             0               0
SES:            0               0
UAS:            20              20
AS:             559

                        Bearer 0
INP:            51.00           0.00
INPRein:        1.00            0.00
delay:          0               0
PER:            0.00            9.24
OR:             0.01            27.68
AgR:            23206.80        5537.43

                        Bearer 1
INP:            2.50            0.00
INPRein:        2.50            0.00
delay:          0               0
PER:            16.06           0.01
OR:             47.81           0.01
AgR:            47.81   0.01

Bitswap:        61/61           22/22

Total time = 9 min 39 sec
FEC:            34              0
CRC:            0               0
ES:             0               0
SES:            0               0
UAS:            20              20
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Latest 15 minutes time = 9 min 39 sec
FEC:            34              0
CRC:            0               0
ES:             0               0
SES:            0               0
UAS:            20              20
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Previous 15 minutes time = 0 sec
FEC:            0               0
CRC:            0               0
ES:             0               0
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Latest 1 day time = 9 min 39 sec
FEC:            34              0
CRC:            0               0
ES:             0               0
SES:            0               0
UAS:            20              20
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Previous 1 day time = 0 sec
FEC:            0               0
CRC:            0               0
ES:             0               0
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Since Link time = 9 min 19 sec
FEC:            34              0
CRC:            0               0
ES:             0               0
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
 > Maybe with lack of time, I should reject service?

[Chrysalis]

What speed service did you come from before FTTC?

It sounds like you seen the BTw estimate and not happy with not been near the upper part of it, if you consider that simply not good enough then by all means cancel, DLM by itself wont get you near 40mbit.

[jelv]

I would switch the modem/router off while you are away. As I understand it if there is no data flowing the DLM counts each time period as null for calculation purposes and given the unsatisfactory nature of your line it would be better for you to monitor any changes as they happen.

The chances of no data flowing with everything turned off except the router are close to zero. Just look at stats when you have been away and there are several MB each day from the internet background noise such as hackers polling IP ranges to find vulnerable connections. Also if you have something like the TBB broadband quality monitor running it will be pinging the line constantly. In fact I'd suspect that leaving it on might fool DLM in to thinking the line is better than it is: if the only packets are very small and low volume the chances of errors on them will be lower then when the connection is being used in anger.

[ejs]

As far as I know, the amount of errors at the DSL level is not affected by the amount of traffic going over the Internet connection.

[renluop]

What speed service did you come from before FTTC?

It sounds like you seen the BTw estimate and not happy with not been near the upper part of it, if you consider that simply not good enough then by all means cancel, DLM by itself wont get you near 40mbit.

The line could be capable of over 7000 kbps, somewhat more with 3 dB forced SNRM. Actual connection stats midday day before change

Code: [Select]

adsl info --stats
adsl: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: Showtime
Last Retrain Reason:    20
Last initialization procedure status:   0
Max:    Upstream rate = 508 Kbps, Downstream rate = 6224 Kbps
Bearer: 0, Upstream rate = 451 Kbps, Downstream rate = 7247 Kbps

Link Power State:       L0
Mode:                   ADSL2+ Annex A
TPS-TC:                 ATM Mode(0x0)
Trellis:                U:ON /D:ON
Line Status:            No Defect
Training Status:        Showtime
                Down            Up
SNR (dB):        2.9             12.4
Attn(dB):        46.5            26.3
Pwr(dBm):        0.0             12.8

                        ADSL2 framing
                        Bearer 0
MSGc:           59              12
B:              226             13
M:              1               1
T:              1               4
R:              0               0
S:              0.9978          0.9739
L:              1820            115
D:              1               1

                        Counters
                        Bearer 0
SF:             21888268                150260
SFErr:          62711           184
RS:             0               1807080
RSCorr:         0               0
RSUnCorr:       0               0

                        Bearer 0
HEC:            330347          121
OCD:            8667            0
LCD:            8667            0
Total Cells:    1771470550              377572601
Data Cells:     121663673               6527451
Drop Cells:     0
Bit Errors:     12715225                11124

ES:             21966           1341
SES:            776             0
UAS:            477             424
AS:             354956

                        Bearer 0
INP:            0.00            0.00
INPRein:        0.00            0.00
delay:          0               0
PER:            16.21           17.53
OR:             32.07           8.21
AgR:            7251.67 458.21

Bitswap:        98152/98157             342/342

Total time = 12 days 20 hours 22 min 11 sec
FEC:            0               0
CRC:            76597           1755
ES:             21966           1341
SES:            776             0
UAS:            477             424
LOS:            5               0
LOF:            41              0
LOM:            23              0
Latest 15 minutes time = 7 min 11 sec
FEC:            0               0
CRC:            16              0
ES:             8               0
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Previous 15 minutes time = 15 min 0 sec
FEC:            0               0
CRC:            15              0
ES:             14              0
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Latest 1 day time = 20 hours 22 min 11 sec
FEC:            0               0
CRC:            58525           21
ES:             9620            11
SES:            719             0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            23              0
Previous 1 day time = 24 hours 0 sec
FEC:            0               0
CRC:            1400            63
ES:             1030            31
SES:            3               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Since Link time = 4 days 2 hours 35 min 55 sec
FEC:            0               0
CRC:            62711           184
ES:             12536           95
SES:            723             0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            23              0
 > I am not a heavy user either. PlusNet's somewhat unreliable  meter suggests an average over last quarter <15Gb/ month. DSLStats traffic figures for previous months I cannot find.

@re0 Suggested I supply graphs, which I did. If anyone analysed them, was anything of interest revealed?

[renluop]

I would like renluop to find the metallic distance from his premises to PCP cabinet or at least an estimate and not as the crow fly's by taking a walk the BT joints covers on the footpath to the PCP cab will be visible, these attenuation numbers coming from the modem can be misleading as to the distance.

as a reference my attenuation of 24.8dB it's 1Km or 1000 meters to PCP cabinet downstream sync rate 39999 kbps with G.INP and 4dB on XdB

I think my previous statement of distance was erroneous. From info gleaned by walking the route I thought most likely, supported by BTw estimates of addresses ~ 870 metres. However, from the plots referred to above it is not unlikely that our later built part of the estate comes in from the opposite direction. That route, being more rural with private drives is not easy to walk. Googles Maps' guesstimate 850-980 metres.

Satellite map, FWLIW, shows the situation, brownish  markings route #1, green the route #2 variant.

[NewtronStar]

guesstimate 850-980 metres.

With that distance a circuit should at least be getting 35Mbps - 46Mbps with a Broadcom 63138 modem if the internal and external wiring is of good quality, The BT Broadband availability checker for me has always reasonably correct over the last 6 years close to VDSL Range A clean.

This is now up to you on how to proceed modem stats Graphs are just a useful guide into the circuits behavior.

[renluop]

With that distance a circuit should at least be getting 35Mbps - 46Mbps with a Broadcom 63138 modem if the internal and external wiring is of good quality, The BT Broadband availability checker for me has always reasonably correct over the last 6 years close to VDSL Range A clean.

This is now up to you on how to proceed modem stats Graphs are just a useful guide into the circuits behavior.

I agree, but the comments in the posts above do strongly suggest that for some reason my circuit is incapable of speeds toward high end of the estimate. This is despite upgraded wiring, and the private engineer's comment on line  quality. Decision is not easy, and less so due to the nearness to the hand back, and our away days.