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Author Topic: Stats  (Read 5383 times)

sotonsam

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Re: Stats
« Reply #30 on: April 23, 2018, 09:35:10 PM »

Actually, come to think about it I do still have the stats from when it resyn'd (so before a reboot).

This might give a bit more to go on?

Code: [Select]
Bearer 0
INP: 3.00 0.00
INPRein: 0.00 0.00
delay: 8 0
PER: 1.78 6.15
OR: 107.53 202.87
AgR: 59645.01 20203.27

and...

Code: [Select]
Total time = 1 days 2 hours 26 min 49 sec
FEC: 6943 76
CRC: 0 5
ES: 7425 565
SES: 146 3
UAS: 62 52
LOS: 1 0
LOF: 8 0
LOM: 0 0
Latest 15 minutes time = 11 min 49 sec
FEC: 77 0
CRC: 0 0
ES: 0 0
SES: 0 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
Previous 15 minutes time = 15 min 0 sec
FEC: 14 0
CRC: 0 0
ES: 0 0
SES: 0 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
Latest 1 day time = 2 hours 26 min 49 sec
FEC: 627 11
CRC: 0 1
ES: 0 1
SES: 0 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
Previous 1 day time = 24 hours 0 sec
FEC: 6316 65
CRC: 0 4
ES: 58 10
SES: 10 0
UAS: 36 26
LOS: 1 0
LOF: 8 0
LOM: 0 0
Since Link time = 16 hours 25 min 29 sec
FEC: 6943 76
CRC: 0 5
ES: 0 5
SES: 0 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
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sotonsam

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Re: Stats
« Reply #31 on: April 24, 2018, 07:50:23 PM »

Bit of an update. I left a laptop running stats overnight but it crashed!! Typically my modem resync'd again last night, but as it had crashed I had no captured stats. arrgh.

I'm down to a 56.89mb line profile now! That seems way too low for a line with 14.1 attenuation in my opinion.

For what it's worth, I've dug out my original BT order and I was given an acceptable range of 63-80mb for my line (my guaranteed minimum was 57). So I'm now going down the route of BT Support, because I might as well have Infinity 1 with that line profile! To be fair, it's been degrading for a good while now...(hence why I came on here looking for ideas!)

I must admit, the HG612 modem seems to have made things a hell of a lot worse though. I did put the ECI back on, but it's made no difference.
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re0

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Re: Stats
« Reply #32 on: April 24, 2018, 10:37:47 PM »

Total time = 1 days 2 hours 26 min 49 sec
FEC:      6943      76
CRC:      0      5
ES:      7425      565
SES:      146      3

UAS:      62      52
LOS:      1      0
LOF:      8      0
LOM:      0      0

This may be most concerning, and would probably initiate some DLM changes considering that the space of time that this would have to occur in was small since the previous 24 hours were as follows:

ES:      58      10
SES:      10      0


Though, there is a concern for me in reference to the modem and the accuracy of the stats since I do not see CRCs logged (which are the cause of ES). And adding the latest 1 day and previous 1 day counters together shows mostly everything matches up bar ES rates. Maybe I'm missing something.

Anyway, the following information is based on the modem stats being accurate:

Please bear in mind that it is based on assumption, since there may be inaccuracies in the stats as mentioned.

There may have been a chance that the high ES/SES rates may have coincided with thunderstorms (which, for some, can cause an increase in errors and outages due to bursts of interference). From the stats we have (which does not take into account stats we don't have if the modem was rebooted/affected before that), going on the assumption it was occuring for around 2.5 hours it implies an error rate of approx. 41 ES/min and 0.3 SES/min on the downstream, and 3.1 ES/min on the upstream (no point calculating the upstream SES; it's miniscule).

Going based on the above, your MTBE (Mean Time Between Errors) over that period of time would have been approx. 1.45 (so an error every 1.45 seconds) which, I should note, is a lot lower than the MTBE red threshold (which is 30 for the Speed DLM profile, which I believe BT employ). So, it would not be unusual for the DLM to make negative changes in this scenario. It looks like the stats have been OK since, so it should recover if the line remains stable.

You can read about the DLM and tresholds at http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/DLM.htm.

Bit of an update. I left a laptop running stats overnight but it crashed!! Typically my modem resync'd again last night, but as it had crashed I had no captured stats. arrgh.
$#%! happens. :no:

I'm down to a 56.89mb line profile now! That seems way too low for a line with 14.1 attenuation in my opinion.
Line profile or sync speed? Just to be clear. Yes, perhaps it's a bit on the lower side for 14.1 dB attenuation but taking into account crosstalk and the fact you have ECI cabinet without support for G.INP and XdB (lower SNR, as low as 3 dB) then it is sorta expected to not be any greater.

For what it's worth, I've dug out my original BT order and I was given an acceptable range of 63-80mb for my line (my guaranteed minimum was 57). So I'm now going down the route of BT Support, because I might as well have Infinity 1 with that line profile! To be fair, it's been degrading for a good while now...(hence why I came on here looking for ideas!)
Yes, I would say that with it being below that threshold you could try and go down that route. Though, I would imagine there is not much they can do. They may choose to release you from contract (if you are still in one). Though, from what I can gather, the minimum guarantee applies to sync speed and not line profile (or throughput).

I must admit, the HG612 modem seems to have made things a hell of a lot worse though. I did put the ECI back on, but it's made no difference.
HG612 modem has made things worse? Perhaps you haven't given it enough of a chance? ;) Perhaps the line conditions have been worse in the previous few days and have tainted your opinion of the modem? :D

Either way, suddenly switching the out for the ECI will not see any immediate changes anyway, since the DLM will first need to adjust the parameters through prolonged stability.
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sotonsam

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Re: Stats
« Reply #33 on: April 24, 2018, 11:00:22 PM »

Cheers for all your input in this re0, making sense of logs that don't make sense to me!

I did try to speak to BT, but you were right, they wouldn't do anything. Apparently my 'minimum' guarantee is actually 56.0Mb. But as my speed results came back as 56.89 then there was no 'issue'.

For what it's worth, since then the HG612 modem resynced again and dropped me down to a 52.10 mb line profile (only get about 48mb throughput now, and my attainable is now 56Mbps). I've ditched that and gone straight back to the ECI, something a bit dodgy with that modem I think if it's resyncing randomly like that. Before I put that on I was getting 65mb, so I've lost a good 15mb in a few days! Thought it may give me a bit of a boost, but it’s done the opposite!

Will leave this a few days and hopefully see DLM improve it, slowly....or are we looking at months and months until it improves things?
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re0

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Re: Stats
« Reply #34 on: April 24, 2018, 11:36:42 PM »

I did try to speak to BT, but you were right, they wouldn't do anything. Apparently my 'minimum' guarantee is actually 56.0Mb. But as my speed results came back as 56.89 then there was no 'issue'.
Looks like the minimum guarantee is based on the handback threshold for the line (which is set at 56 Mbps). Though, if you signed up and the minimum guarantee was 57 Mbps then they should honour it if you did not regrade/renew contract since the estimates were provided.

For what it's worth, since then the HG612 modem resynced again and dropped me down to a 52.10 mb line profile (only get about 48mb throughput now, and my attainable is now 56Mbps). I've ditched that and gone straight back to the ECI, something a bit dodgy with that modem I think if it's resyncing randomly like that. Before I put that on I was getting 65mb, so I've lost a good 15mb in a few days! Thought it may give me a bit of a boost, but it’s done the opposite!
There was not much you could gain from using the HG612 in terms of speed. It may have been a bit more stable on your line (though, it looks like it is the complete opposite at the moment).

Is the modem actually resynchronising or is it actually rebooting itself? Since if it is doing the latter, perhaps it is a dodgy PSU or hardware.

Will leave this a few days and hopefully see DLM improve it, slowly....or are we looking at months and months until it improves things?
As long as the line errors statisfy the thresholds, it should take a few days before improvement. It depends on whether your line has history of instability. Recovering from unusual, high error rates over short term should be fine, but if it was prolonged the DLM may be more stubborn. But not a lot is known about exactly how long it will take since not a lot of information regarding the DLM's internal processes is public.

Perhaps you could provide the last stats from the modem that you got before you switched it out?
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sotonsam

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Re: Stats
« Reply #35 on: April 28, 2018, 01:37:55 PM »

As a way of an update, I ended up getting BT to pick this up as a fault as I feel below my minimum. Had one of their contractor 'CubeGB' engineers out today who rulled out anything in my house, unfortuntley he can't do anymore so it's gone back to Openreach as an esclation. When esclating it, they ran more tests over the phone and a fault was detected on the fibre side of the circuit - at the FTTC DSLAM. (maybe my port?)

So hopefully, after all these months of accepting poor speeds for a line of my quality, I may be getting somewhere... (as an asside, my attenuation has since dropped from 14.2 to 13.8, and that was just from using a twisted RJ11/RJ45 cable from the master socket and using an MK4)

I've been given a 48hr turn around, so I assume the next stage will be a port swap on the DSLAM and a subsequant DLM reset?
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re0

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Re: Stats
« Reply #36 on: April 28, 2018, 01:55:44 PM »

To me, it seems like it could be something to do with the DSLAM port. I do not have a lot of experience in reference to DSLAM hardware, but I am glad to see it was escalted because nothing seemed too out of place from my perspective.

The difference reported in the attenuation is insignificant, and may be partially down to different tones being allocated at different (lower, less attenuated) frequencies.

After any fault clearance, it is normal to reset the DLM. Though I am not sure of what work they will carry out. Perhaps you can find out what work they carried out after it's been done. :)

Keep us posted!
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sotonsam

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Re: Stats
« Reply #37 on: April 28, 2018, 02:19:02 PM »

Yeah, it's a minimal change in attenuation, but at least it's going the right way :)

To keep BT happy, I'm having to use my HH5 as my modem atm, they kept bitching at me when I said I just had the Openreach modem. Doesn't seem too bad really, I've got a bit of a double-NAT going on as it sits in front of PfSense, but I can do everything I need.

I believe I was the first, or at least 1 of the very first two or 3 that had FTTC enabled here - I ordered on the day the cab was made live back in 2013, and had it installed a few weeks later. So by being first/second, there's every chance that I'm being penalised by crosstalk more than anyone else....(i.e. I'd have seen the biggest drop since the start)

Anyone who is knowledgeable on the port side of things, when they change your port…do they usually stick you in a less populated area which is less susceptible to crosstalk interference? (until more come online that is).
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burakkucat

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Re: Stats
« Reply #38 on: April 28, 2018, 03:43:56 PM »

Anyone who is knowledgeable on the port side of things, when they change your port…do they usually stick you in a less populated area which is less susceptible to crosstalk interference? (until more come online that is).

No, nothing like that. The next free port will be allocated to your circuit. The person assigned to the task will have no say in the matter.

The physical change-over will take place at the PCP by swapping from the tie-pairs of the existing port to the tie-pairs associated with the newly allocated port. Basically: Open the cabinet; identify your circuit; snip, snip, snip & snip; take the tails of the tie-pair to the newly allocated port and crimp, crimp, crimp & crimp; done.
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sotonsam

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Re: Stats
« Reply #39 on: April 30, 2018, 03:48:29 PM »

This is turning into a bit of a saga!

So, BT turned up at my property again today - luckily someone was in, as they didn't say they'd be turning up! I've not been here myself, so I'm just relaying what was told...

Basically, they had to go up on the pole over the road and they've apparently run a new cable between the pole and the PCP, as this is where the fault was. I was told that they spent all day going back and forth between the PCP and the chambers along the path…so assuming that is indeed what they’ve done. Anyone heard that being done before on a broadband sync fault? Bear in mind there has been no noise on my line.

But to cut a long story short, nothing has changed apart from my attenuation increasing and SNR increaing(I was 13.8, now I’m 14.9. SNR was 6, now 6.8). My sync speed is still a bit low for me at around 58 attainable, so only 55 throughput. I'm back on fast path though as my latency has improved...

Will my sync speed increase now over time? Otherwise I'm going to be ditching them I think and heading to Virgin. BT confirmed to me the other day that my customer point of sale figure as a bare minimum is 63 and not 58 as they initially had me believe.
« Last Edit: April 30, 2018, 03:52:52 PM by sotonsam »
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re0

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Re: Stats
« Reply #40 on: April 30, 2018, 05:27:19 PM »

BT should have informed you when Openreach would turn up, or at least whether it would be AM or PM. Unless they didn't need to work at the property (which seems the case here, though I cannot say why they came to the property; probably just to let you know).

Rather than running a new cable, they'd rather use an existing pair (if one is free) since it is less work. I imagine that your D-side was probably out of spec when tested (could have been something like the resistence being out of defined thresholds) and perhaps no pairs were free that were also in spec when tested so they just laid new cable. This would be done in virtually any case of there being a fault, regardless of what the fault is described as if they can measure a problem with the pair with no free pairs avaialble.

The attenuation increase may be down to quite a few more higher frequencies being used (and therefore the average attenuation is higher). The SNR should suggest that there is some more headroom over just the target 6 dB, but it can't be banding as they SHOULD have reset the DLM after the fault clearance. But I cannot tell just based on that information. It would certainly be a great help if you could post the stats graphs as you did before in your opening post so we can see if there are any noticeable differences.
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sotonsam

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Re: Stats
« Reply #41 on: April 30, 2018, 05:35:40 PM »

BT should have informed you when Openreach would turn up, or at least whether it would be AM or PM. Unless they didn't need to work at the property (which seems the case here, though I cannot say why they came to the property; probably just to let you know).

Rather than running a new cable, they'd rather use an existing pair (if one is free) since it is less work. I imagine that your D-side was probably out of spec when tested (could have been something like the resistence being out of defined thresholds) and perhaps no pairs were free that were also in spec when tested so they just laid new cable. This would be done in virtually any case of there being a fault, regardless of what the fault is described as if they can measure a problem with the pair with no free pairs avaialble.

The attenuation increase may be down to quite a few more higher frequencies being used (and therefore the average attenuation is higher). The SNR should suggest that there is some more headroom over just the target 6 dB, but it can't be banding as they SHOULD have reset the DLM after the fault clearance. But I cannot tell just based on that information. It would certainly be a great help if you could post the stats graphs as you did before in your opening post so we can see if there are any noticeable differences.

There's re0. They did actually come into my property and leave their 'testers' running, so I should have been given a bit of warning at least! I've not got the HG612 running at the moment, just the Smart Hub as BT insisted I ran this or they wouldn't raise a fault - I'm a bit nervous to pull it out and put the HG612 in place atm, in case DLM is actually trying to do it's thing.

The best stats I can give you atm are - (interstingly my attenuation has dropped back down to 14)


Data rate:

20.00 kbps / 57.91 kbps
Maximum data rate:

20000 / 58914
Noise margin:

6.8 / 6.3
Line attenuation:

14
Signal attenuation:
VPI / VCI:

0/38
Modulation:

G_993_2_ANNEX_B
Latency type:

Fast Path
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re0

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Re: Stats
« Reply #42 on: April 30, 2018, 05:38:53 PM »

No banding present then it seems, but I would suggest running an unlocked modem (such as the HG612 you have) to get graphed stats so we can look over them. It should not impact the DLM as long as you do not exceed the MTBR thresholds defined by the stability profile, but I can certainly understand your concern.
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sotonsam

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Re: Stats
« Reply #43 on: April 30, 2018, 05:42:53 PM »

No banding present then it seems, but I would suggest running an unlocked modem (such as the HG612 you have) to get graphed stats so we can look over them. It should not impact the DLM as long as you do not exceed the MTBR thresholds defined by the stability profile, but I can certainly understand your concern.

What's the 'sign' to look for if it's a banded profile?

Also, I've just got back onto BT and they're re-esclating it for me! Surprising.....thought they'd grunt and not bother! As this is still a running fault....I may chance my luck and throw my HG612 back on...
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re0

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Re: Stats
« Reply #44 on: April 30, 2018, 06:09:05 PM »

The usual characteristics for a banded line are:
  • Surplus SNRM
  • Syncing no higher than a certain rate (so you would either sync at or below that rate every time depending on conditions)
Though I cannot comment on what data rates would be typical for a banded line since I never had it applied before and do not know how the DLM bands on FTTC. Someone else here may be able to share their knowledge of banding.

Good to see progress and that they're re-escalating it. Keep us posted.
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