Kitz ADSL Broadband Information
adsl spacer  
Support this site
Home Broadband ISPs Tech Routers Wiki Forum
 
     
   Compare ISP   Rate your ISP
   Glossary   Glossary
 
Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

Pages: [1] 2 3 4

Author Topic: HG612 using G.DMT returning ADSL Max speeds rather than ADSL2+  (Read 4156 times)

jwbjnwolf

  • Just arrived
  • *
  • Posts: 18
    • Jase Wolf - Site

Hi, I recently just got a Hg612 I had lying about unlocked and setup for using as a modem with my Netgear R9000 router.

It runs fine, and I have a far better stable connection than I did with the Smarthub due to being able to use different DNS settings than the dodgy ones on the Smarthub.

However it's refusing to use the ADSL2/ADSL2+ option. It only connects to the G.DMT option which I believe is ADSL Max?

My ADSL2+ connection is 3.58mbit down & 1.15mbit up, though I never saw that upload on the Smarthub.

ADSL Max I understand caps out at about 2.2mbit or so down, and then 448kbit up. These are sort of the speeds I am seeing in the line rate and so am getting. The attainable speeds is the full 3.58mbit.

I read that switching from VC-Mux to LLC is something that should help, though the connection is just the same and still will not work over ADSL2/2+.

Is there the possibility it could be the dsl/phone splitter that's the cause?

I am using a shared ADSL/VDSL one. Don't think it says ADSL2/2+ on it but it worked perfectly fine with the Smarthub. I'll update whether swapping that changes anything.

Here's a joined screenshot of my settings in the attached image.

If anyone is able to help with this, that'll be great. Btw, we are on BT's ADSL2+. Though as I have the settings setup on my router regarding getting online with BT, that's not really relevant is it?

Thanks for all the fantastic information available here. Really has helped.

Jase
« Last Edit: April 15, 2018, 03:03:43 PM by jwbjnwolf »
Logged

kitzuser87430

  • Reg Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 424
Re: HG612 using G.DMT returning ADSL Max speeds rather than ADSL2+
« Reply #1 on: April 15, 2018, 03:21:13 PM »

I suggest you untuck "all" and tick "adsl2" in the DSL configuration page

Ian
Logged

re0

  • Reg Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 379
Re: HG612 using G.DMT returning ADSL Max speeds rather than ADSL2+
« Reply #2 on: April 15, 2018, 03:21:34 PM »

Hi,

Welcome to the forum.

Sorry if I cannot be any immediate help, since I do not own a HG612 any more (and not for some years). Though I imagine someone who owns the device currently may be able to shed some light onto it if it is a known issue.

Just to clarify what you said, if you tick either ADSL2/2+ and not "ALL" it does not synchronise at all?

Just to note, G.DMT is NOT ADSL Max, but rather ADSL Max implemented G.DMT modulation for use; up to 8 Mbps downstream, typically with 448 Kbps upstream on ADSL Max unless it was IPStream Max service which allowed for 832 Kbps (though, in theory, the technology could utilise up to 1.3 Mbps upstream). Later versions of xDSL such as ADSL2 and ADSL2+ are known as G.DMT.bis and G.DMT.bisplus likewise.
Logged

jwbjnwolf

  • Just arrived
  • *
  • Posts: 18
    • Jase Wolf - Site
Re: HG612 using G.DMT returning ADSL Max speeds rather than ADSL2+
« Reply #3 on: April 15, 2018, 03:33:09 PM »

Correct, switching it to specifically use only ADSL2/2+, it won't work. But if I select all, it will work by using G.DMT.

Switched the ADSL Filter to see if that'd change anything, though sadly that hasn't.

It's definitely a keeper this setup even as it is though. Even with the slower speed, it's seemingly faster due to switching away from the problematic DNS of the Smarthub. Just would be nice to work out to get it back to the full line speed.
Logged

re0

  • Reg Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 379
Re: HG612 using G.DMT returning ADSL Max speeds rather than ADSL2+
« Reply #4 on: April 15, 2018, 03:48:30 PM »

That's fairly odd. To me, that would indicate that the line is only capable of ADSL (G.DMT modulation) and not ADSL2/2+ (or, in other words, you're not provisioned on a product that uses ADSL2/2+). I am not up to scratch with legacy products such as ADSL Max that are provided by Openreach, but I am pretty sure it has been retired (only connections provisioned before it's stop sale date still have it?).

It doesn't look like a simple filter switch will make any difference here. Perhaps you could give us a copy of the stats shown on your Smarthub to be absolutely sure which modulation it is using?
Logged

jwbjnwolf

  • Just arrived
  • *
  • Posts: 18
    • Jase Wolf - Site
Re: HG612 using G.DMT returning ADSL Max speeds rather than ADSL2+
« Reply #5 on: April 15, 2018, 04:02:28 PM »

The Line modulation showing in the Smarthub stats is:

G_992_1_ANNEX_A

And the line rate on the Smarthub is:

448 Kbps / 3.33 Mbps

So I guess it actually is doing what it should be, but still the modem only giving 2.8 most of the time, which in turn I usually only get about 2mbit from in real usage, it's quite a difference which is very strange.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2018, 04:07:00 PM by jwbjnwolf »
Logged

re0

  • Reg Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 379
Re: HG612 using G.DMT returning ADSL Max speeds rather than ADSL2+
« Reply #6 on: April 15, 2018, 04:16:58 PM »

It looks like your connection is PROBABLY an ADSL Max connection if the Smarthub is also synchronising with the upstream of 448 Kbps. G.DMT can actually synchronise higher than 448 Kbps, so this is a telltale sign for me.

Just out of interest, could you let us know which exchange you are on and see what the DSL Checker says? Perhaps just make a snippy of the available products and attach it to your post. https://www.dslchecker.bt.com/
Logged

jwbjnwolf

  • Just arrived
  • *
  • Posts: 18
    • Jase Wolf - Site
Re: HG612 using G.DMT returning ADSL Max speeds rather than ADSL2+
« Reply #7 on: April 15, 2018, 04:33:31 PM »

Just attached. Would be on the glorious Fibre if it was available, but lost it when switched Jan last year from EE. Hoping it'll be available by the time our contract has ended in June next year with BT, as what pay now for this damn connection, could be paying Vodafone just 2 more for the full 78mbit. But that G.fast planned is interesting!

ADSL Max is available along with ADSL2+. I think maybe we must of been on the ADSL2+ around the end of last year as the connection went up from 3.5mbit to 4.5mbit for a while, but then it's come back to the 3.5mbit it was before. Will damn well have to be onto BT about that then if that's the case, as being on ADSL Max is not what we're paying for when the ADSL2+ is available.

What I don't get about the availablity though. I understand the VDSL capacity is at the limit, so unless someone comes off or it got upgraded, can't get it. But if I put 5 at the end instead of 9 in the telephone number, it shows the exact same cabinet, cabinet 5, same exchange, Spencers Wood, etc.. But it says VDSL is available at 25mbit down/2mbit up speeds. That I really do not get.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2018, 05:04:08 PM by jwbjnwolf »
Logged

re0

  • Reg Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 379
Re: HG612 using G.DMT returning ADSL Max speeds rather than ADSL2+
« Reply #8 on: April 15, 2018, 05:08:45 PM »

Just attached. Would be on the glorious Fibre if it was available, but lost it when switched Jan last year from EE. Hoping it'll be available by the time our contract has ended in June next year with BT, as what pay now for this damn connection, could be paying Vodafone just 2 more for the full 78mbit.
Your best bet to getting on FTTC again would be to monitor the DSL Checker daily and wait for it to show available. I read somewhere on this forum that the waiting list is not actually a queue, but rather first come first served as soon as soon as it becomes available. If an ISP has an order pending availability on their system for a customer, depending on when that ISP queries the database for availability, you could essentially get in before them if you order as soon as it becomes "available". If I am wrong, someone please correct me.

But that G.fast planned is interesting!
Since the pilot is pretty much over, the national rollout has begun. Quite a few cabinets (including my own) are showing "planned", but there is not much information in reference to when it will actually be enabled. A typical G.fast deployment (according to Openreach) can take around 3 months, but with other variables it could take longer.

ADSL Max is available along with ADSL2+. I think maybe we must of been on the ADSL2+ around the end of last year as the connection went up from 3.5mbit to 4.5mbit for a while, but then it's come back to the 3.5mbit it was before. Will damn well have to be onto BT about that then if that's the case, as being on ADSL Max is not what we're paying for when the ADSL2+ is available.
You should query BT in reference to your broadband connection if you are not sure. I am a bit perplexed as I am not aware of any capping that BT do on their ADSL2+ connections for upstream sync speed, and nor I am aware of any banding on upstream. I should note that I do not have ADSL any more, and it has been a few years since I had it last.

There is a post on a Plusnet forum (https://community.plus.net/t5/Broadband/Stuck-on-G-DMT/m-p/1153950/highlight/true#M274608) that may provide some insight into whether you are on 20CN or 21CN connectivity (the former will be ADSL Max, and the latter will be technology capable of ADSL2/2+ modulation).

You may have seen 4.5 Mbps in the past when your SNR margin was lower (perhaps it used to be 6 dB), but if you have experienced a lot of errors or disconnections exceeding speficied thresholds on the DLM defined by your stability profile then you may have lost some of that speed as the parameters have been adjusted to induce stability. I can see that in one of your screenshots it is showing a SNRM of 14.2 dB, so the target is most likely 15 dB currently.

What I don't get about the availablity though. I understand the VDSL capacity is at the limit, so unless someone comes off or it got upgraded, can't get it. But if I put 5 at the end instead of 9 in the telephone number, it shows the exact same cabinet, cabinet 5, same exchange etc.. But it says VDSL is available at 25mbit down/2mbit up speeds. That I really do not get.
I am not an expert with the DSL Checker, but it could be an error with their database. Perhaps someone here can give more an insight into that. Regardless, you could still enquire with BT (since you are still in contract with them) if you think it is available on your cabinet and they should be able to query Openreach directly in regards to that. It could be your lucky day!

Perhaps you could specify which exchange you are on? I can see you've listed your cabinet above, but no reference to the exchange! :)
Logged

jwbjnwolf

  • Just arrived
  • *
  • Posts: 18
    • Jase Wolf - Site
Re: HG612 using G.DMT returning ADSL Max speeds rather than ADSL2+
« Reply #9 on: April 15, 2018, 05:29:24 PM »

Sorry I did edit to include it though you must of not seen it lol. It's Spencers Wood, Cabinet 5.

I'm not personally that bothered about getting on Fibre, as this ADSL is usable. It's just not so obviously for uploading/downloading. But that does get me out in town to make use of the fast hotspots (mainly the Apple Store in town).

If fibre became available again when our contract is up, then switching to Vodafone as I mentioned.. or whoever then is the best price, will be when bother with fibre. With BT, there's no way I feel like paying 45 for the full fibre when, other than my downloading/uploading needs, this connection does the job.

Much prefer to put up with a slower connection, spend the extra I would be on BT's Fibre on other things, and have a need to get out rather than not feeling like going out because I can simply do everything I need at home lol. It gets me out more with my camera photographing and filming in reality rather than constantly making videos in games.

The one other good thing than getting out more since losing fibre, it helped me big time making my website work nice and fast on a slow connection. (I totally didn't optimise beforehand and used full sized images on my gallery thumbs instead of optimised thumbnails.. Definitely was a bad mistake then lol).
« Last Edit: April 15, 2018, 05:35:31 PM by jwbjnwolf »
Logged

atkinsong

  • Reg Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 103
Re: HG612 using G.DMT returning ADSL Max speeds rather than ADSL2+
« Reply #10 on: April 15, 2018, 05:47:50 PM »


What I don't get about the availablity though. I understand the VDSL capacity is at the limit, so unless someone comes off or it got upgraded, can't get it. But if I put 5 at the end instead of 9 in the telephone number, it shows the exact same cabinet, cabinet 5, same exchange, Spencers Wood, etc.. But it says VDSL is available at 25mbit down/2mbit up speeds. That I really do not get.

If you use a number that already has a VDSL connection, then the checker will show it as being available. It will only show the true cabinet state if the number used does not have VDSL or via a postcode check.
Logged
ISP:BT 80/20; Cab:ECI; Router:Draytek Vigor 2760

re0

  • Reg Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 379
Re: HG612 using G.DMT returning ADSL Max speeds rather than ADSL2+
« Reply #11 on: April 15, 2018, 05:48:45 PM »

Well, if there is a benefit to having a poor connection then it is that it forces you to do other things!

At least we have managed to establish that it is not a problem with the HG612, but rather something that is outside of your control.

Did you look at the link I provided? jelv says that if you run BTW diagnostics (at http://www.speedtest.btwholesale.com/PerformanceTesterWS/diagnostics.do) "it reports downstream only you are on 20CN, if it reports both up and down you are on 21CN." This will certainly provide an insight, but I think it will need chasing with BT anyway so they can investigate and reset the line profile if necessary.

Just be aware not to swich the modems too often in a single day as the DLM may think your line is unstable. It looks like your line is already at the highest SNRM with interleaving, but you could risk capping.
Logged

jwbjnwolf

  • Just arrived
  • *
  • Posts: 18
    • Jase Wolf - Site
Re: HG612 using G.DMT returning ADSL Max speeds rather than ADSL2+
« Reply #12 on: April 15, 2018, 06:39:19 PM »

Yea now I know it's not an issue with my setup, I won't be changing it again.

Here's the result I got from that which is showing the upstream. So this definitely is weird.

The last time I tried a modem too, a Netgear ADSL2+/VDSL modem, last year, that just wouldn't get any connection, now thinking of it.. pointing towards this being ADSL Max. But how's it ADSL Max then if it's showing a upstream, which is only supposedly the case for ADSL2+?

This is so weird. Anyone know how I can get throw to a British BT call centre? As the Indian ones just are so frustrating.

The guy the other week, I had to explain to him the difference between WiFi, & DSL when he was trying to get me to split the SSID 2.4ghz & 5ghz bands up so I "get a stronger WiFi connection from the exchange" when the problem was the smarthub router keep losing connection to the internet, which I didn't even use the Wifi on lol.

The one yesterday I had to explain that port forwarding is for opening up things on your local network (such as a web server) for accessing elsewhere outside of the network.. What I had problems with is the DNS of the Smarthub that wasn't as the time letting me use the internet (but over a VPN worked).

I understand not everyone knows everything. So regarding port forwarding and DNS, that's forgivable. But being on the front line customer services for networking, and not understanding the difference between DSL & Wifi etc, that's just frustratingly dumb.

Sorry for that tad rant. Just you would think that to be a customer services worker for BT or so, there would at least be a test to make sure these things are known.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2018, 06:45:37 PM by jwbjnwolf »
Logged

jwbjnwolf

  • Just arrived
  • *
  • Posts: 18
    • Jase Wolf - Site
Re: HG612 using G.DMT returning ADSL Max speeds rather than ADSL2+
« Reply #13 on: April 15, 2018, 06:41:57 PM »

If you use a number that already has a VDSL connection, then the checker will show it as being available. It will only show the true cabinet state if the number used does not have VDSL or via a postcode check.

Thanks for that. It would make so much more sense if it was stated "in use" rather than "available". But what's life without confusement lol
Logged

ejs

  • Kitizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 1768
Re: HG612 using G.DMT returning ADSL Max speeds rather than ADSL2+
« Reply #14 on: April 15, 2018, 07:03:48 PM »

It's quite possible to be on 21CN, with your line set to ADSL1 only. Plusnet have (or had) a policy of putting long lines, or lines with low estimates, on ADSL1, out of fear that ADSL2+ might be worse on such long lines.

Perhaps someone, at some point, set your line to ADSL1 and set the capped 448k upstream, presumably in an attempt to make your line more stable.

At these speeds, there won't be much difference between ADSL1 and ADSL2/2+ anyway.
Logged
Pages: [1] 2 3 4
 

anything