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[sotonsam]

Hi All,

I've been more than happy with my FTTC Infinity 2 connection over the years, I haven't dropped below 66mb in the 3 to 4 years I've had it, and my upload is always 20mb.

Obviously things are changing and I'm finding there's a little more demand for speed in my house, so my ears poked up when I heard about the g.fast opportunities. I understand it can go up to 330mb and 50mb down based on your closeness to the cab which is fair enough. I'm no more than 150m away, I can see it out of my window.

So I was a bit surprised when I just ran a checker on my number to see that g.fast is planned, but the speeds look a little lower than I was hoping for - the upload is estimated as being a touch lower than what I have now?



So, when it says planned - what does that mean? Are we a few months away from seeing it available? And given what I currently get with my Infinity 2 product, do you think those estimations are a little under estimated? What is it basing it on out of interest?

I actually put my neighbour’s number in who is 2 doors down from me (Further away from the cab), it says they're on the same cab as me but they are estimated to get in the 250+mb bracket. So I’m a tad confused!

[Ronski]

One thing you need to remember is that G.Fast doesn't use the same frequencies as ADSL or VDSL, it starts just above the VDSL frequency range. Higher frequencies don't travel so far, so you get less range, hence why you have a lower estimate upload speed. Of course in reality it could be higher, or could be lower.

Have you considered that your phone line may run in the opposite direction away from the cabinet and then double back, hence why your neighbour who's further away has a higher estimate - his line could well be shorter.

Also the estimates do seem to rather hit and miss and the moment, a bit like the estimates for VDSL were when it first came out, only trying it will really tell how well it performs.

As for how long before you can get it, well that's anyone's guess. At a guess I would say months away, some places have had G.Fast pods for months and are still not live as they need another link installed at the exchange to handle the extra capacity and speed, which can take a long time to be installed for whatever reasons.

PS. Welcome to the forums.

[sotonsam]

Cheers for the reply and welcome!

So many variables to concider! And true, my neighbour could do a shorter distance. I guess I'll just sit tight and wait and see what happens. I've been offered a couple of good deals with Virgin Media, my contract with BT is up next year so I'll see what happens. My need for extra speed my mean I have to jump ship....

[Ronski]

Given the choice I'd go with G.fast if the speeds we're reasonable, but I'm too far for G.Fast, and my lines not good quality for VDSL either so that's not fast enough on the upload side, so I've jumped ship and just signed up with VM as they've just deployed FTTP in our area. Just keeping my  that there are no problems given their history.

[NewtronStar]

It kind of makes me smile watching members move into 21st century Broadband with VM cable & FTTP and also G.FAST, while I have only 3 FTTC cabinets close to my premises and each one is nearly 1Km apart it's almost like a Rural situation yet 800 meters away is a densely populated urban area with VM though have not seen any PCP cabinet with a G.fast pod bolted on in North Down.

[re0]

I certainly have the same question as @sotonsam has asked in regards to when to expect it in my area. I was going to create a topic here a few weeks ago but I thought I would chip now in as it's relevant.

According to Connecting Britain with ultrafast Gfast technology (https://www.homeandbusiness.openreach.co.uk/docs/default-source/default-document-library/gfast-factsheet-16102017.pdf?sfvrsn=66d7b160_2) on page 3 it says:

"It typically takes us about three months to plan and build Gfast services in a new location."

Though, considering the amount of variables when it comes to rolling out, it could take longer since they may need to re-shell the cabinet before they can bolt the pod on, run additional links to the exchange or there may be issues in relation to the space available to place the pod (in which case, I cannot be sure of the resolution since I do not know if they use standalone pods).

Just like with @sotonsam, it has been showing as "planned" on my cabinet. In fact, it has been since last month with the clean range virtually maxed out and the impacted still looking quite nice (still estimated above 260/26 DS/US impacted). The line is under 200m (it's almost direct from the cabinet) though I am most concerned about the aluminium present which may present high attenuation at the very high freqencies which are utilised with G.fast. Not every cabinet has it planned in this area from what I can see, but the ones which are planned have yet to see a G.fast pod since none of them - at present - have one. Some cabinets may even need a re-shell to accomodate the pod.

I have tried to contact the Openreach Fibre Enquiries email for information regarding the rollout in my area, but without success (seems like they do not respond to emails there, or at least in my case).

I have also contacted two ISPs so far to see if they could query for additional information: Pulse8 and uno.

The former does not currently offer G.fast, so they said they cannot query about availability yet. But seeing as TalkTalk Business have started trialing it and will have a commercial launch this summer (see https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2018/04/isp-talktalk-business-confirm-330mbps-uk-g-fast-broadband-trial.html) then I can see resellers such as Pulse8 having access to this technology pretty soon (or rather I should say that I have been told that Pulse8 should be trialing it in a few months).

The latter currently has an ongoing pilot, though they have basically stated that there is no way for them to get any information from Openreach regarding the rollout above what the checker says or what they publish on their own site.

I have even contacted someone (would rather not give out the name) at thinkbroadband to see if they could query Openreach for information in this area, but they stated that their focus is on FTTC/FTTP (and currently not G.fast) in areas where ADSL-based services were previously the best service. I can respect and understand this.

So I am at a dead end for getting any additional information for my cabinet currently.

@sotonsam: in reference to your situation, as @Ronski has said, the estimates for G.fast are a bit hit and miss. From what I can gather, until the pod is installed with lines connected and collecting data then the estimates may be very wild. The situation was and is true with FTTC (VDSL) also.

My questions for you, @sotonsam, are:

• Do any of the cabinets in your area have a G.fast pod installed?
• Do you have access to your router (line) statistics?

I apologise that I have not uploaded or linked any images of a G.fast pod. But I do not have any that I have taken myself and I do not want to hotlink or upload without the permission of the photographer. A quick Google will show you what a pod looks like just in case you have not seen one before.

Having access to your line statistics from your router (specficially attenuation) should be able to guage the approximate distance from the cabinet. It won't give you exact figures since that is impossible with the many variables that need to be taken into account. Or you could wait until the pod is enabled on your cabinet and order to find out the actual speeds.

[skyeci]

a relatives cab took several months to go live after the pod was fitted. I guess no one really knows how long it's going to take. just have to keep on checking. I would imagine the time to go live will speed up eventually as more kit gets installed etc.

[re0]

I personally do not have a lot of confidence that my area will be able to get it any time soon. Seems fairly unlikely that this place will be included in the "10 million by 2020" target, but that's just the pessimism. Though it is not baseless pessimism considering FTTC (VDSL) was not available until 2016 as part of BDUK. Though hopefully it will be different this time considering it is a commercial rollout from Openreach themselves.

@skyeci: Just out of interest, if you are aware, was G.fast showing as planned on your relative's cabinet much before the pod was fitted? It has been almost a month since it has popped up on the checker for myself but I have not witnessed any works nearby as of yet.

I crave more information as I am basically drooling for that ultrafast speed without the need for bonding. It's like a drug; gotta go faster ... put the bits directly into my veins. Or just drink until I topple over.

Maybe it's time to seek help for such an addiciton... the need for speed.

[skyeci]

it was in one of the trial areas I believe so probably had different criteria.  even so it took a very very long time to go live...I had no previous info apart from the day I happened to pass it the contractor was there fitting it...

[kitz]

My daughter is in one of the pilot trial areas and its been 'available' on the checker for months.

They actually have an order placed for g.fast (or rather the order was placed in Feb) but they still aren't live.   I'm getting information 3rd or 4th hand so I don't know how accurate the info is, but they are waiting on the provision of more bandwidth capacity.  From what I can gather it sounds like the ISP (despite them having their own LLU in the exchange) may be provisioning g.fast using BTw. 

What I'm saying is that if you have areas whereby it is showing as available and has been for months and those EU's are still not live, then I hardly think you are going to get any dates for areas which are marked as 'planned'.

[kitz]

I actually put my neighbour’s number in who is 2 doors down from me (Further away from the cab), it says they're on the same cab as me but they are estimated to get in the 250+mb bracket. So I’m a tad confused!

As Ronski says, estimates will depend upon the length of the d-side.   You can have someone next door who will get different speeds to you and that will entirely depend on their length of cable from the DP.   

When I looked at the estimations for my daughters neighbours and plotted it against where the DP's where..  then a pattern emerged and it became logical why neighbours in the same street would get different speeds.    Its not distance from the cabinet, but also distance from the DP and JB which determine what speed you will get.  If the DP is right outside your house, then of course you will get better speeds than someone who may have an additional 20,30,40m of cable from the pole.   It's easier to spot with overhead cables, but exactly the same theory will apply with UG JB's

That post where I compared connection speed estimates to the DP location are can be viewed here.  When plotted like that it immediately becomes clear that its the houses with a DP right outside that are the ones getting the best estimates.

[sotonsam]

Appreciate all the input in here, and it does sound like plenty have similar questions!

@re0, to respond to you..

There is no pod installed on my cab, in fact the original PCP cab looks like something from the 80's/70's, very old styled one. Will prob need plenty of work on it before it can even be ready one assumes. It looks like this...



I don't actually have access to my line stats as I don't use any Hubs....I've still got the original Open reach modem drilled into a virtual firewall I run (pfSense), that works for me quite well, but obviously I lose the ability to see any stats..! If anyone has any recommendations for another VDSL modem that I can run in bridge mode and see the stats then I'd appreciate that.

[burakkucat]

. . . in fact the original PCP cab looks like something from the 80's/70's, very old styled one.

That type of cast-iron primary cross-connection cabinet is as originally used by the GPO in the late 1940s - 1960s. The cabinets installed in the 1970s or 1980s are significantly different.

I've still got the original Open reach modem drilled into a virtual firewall I run (pfSense), that works for me quite well, but obviously I lose the ability to see any stats.

The Openreach branded Huawei HG612 modem can provide the circuit statistics via its LAN2 port . . . as long as it has been updated with the most recent, unlocked, firmware image.

[sotonsam]

I've got an ECI modem unfortuntley. And an ECI cab.

[burakkucat]

I've got an ECI modem unfortuntley. And an ECI cab.

Don't be bothered about the cabinet, just pretend that you do not know the manufacturer of the electronics contained therein and then source a Huawei HG612 for use on your circuit.