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Author Topic: ECI G.INP- Updated info April 2018  (Read 7664 times)

Weaver

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Re: ECI G.INP- Updated info April 2018
« Reply #30 on: June 05, 2018, 05:49:31 PM »

Wow. What on earth is the problem then?

I am surprised that extra hardware is needed. G.INP is just an additional protocol sub component and it is a software matter and so only costs one-off sw development plus the cost of pushing out the software, provided there is no show stopping issue with lack of cpu horsepower or crippling shortage of RAM the latter being very unlikely in this day and age. On the other hand maybe the CPUs used were woefully underpowered and inadequate, and only barely worked.
« Last Edit: June 05, 2018, 05:55:00 PM by Weaver »
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ktz392837

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Re: ECI G.INP- Updated info April 2018
« Reply #31 on: June 05, 2018, 06:44:03 PM »



We have a user from Israel on the forums who is connected to the exact same ECI DSLAM with what certainly appears to be the same 206 firmware.

That particular user has G.INP working perfectly.
There is also at least one user who says they never had it removed when it was trialed 2 years ago.

It is very infuriating all the delays.  It makes me think it must be working for the majority but a small minority is holding back rollout.

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ktz392837

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Re: ECI G.INP- Updated info April 2018
« Reply #32 on: June 05, 2018, 06:52:29 PM »



seems a bit pointless wasting blood, sweat and tears with vectoring methods on ECI cabs.
. I do not believe (I could be wrong) Ginp or 3db has anything to do with vectoring.  It should require nothing additional in the cabinets apart from a software upgrade.   The way I look at it is Ginp and 3db should give the majority of ECI users an increase in speed and a more reliable connection.

I look at GFast being years away from providing the potential of increasing the speed of most end users connections.

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Weaver

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Re: ECI G.INP- Updated info April 2018
« Reply #33 on: June 05, 2018, 07:28:19 PM »

@ktz392837 Agreed. Regarding G.INP,  I now effectively have the same thing but it's the Broadcom proprietary equivalent called “PhyR”(Tx) or some such thing, on ADSL2. It gives increased reliability depending more or less on the type of noise distribution that you experience and then this may or may not be sacrificed, the reliability put back again, and exchanged for more speed. You can always make it less reliable, by increasing the size of constellations (ie greater bit loading / bits-per bin) or by smaller/shorter FEC overheads if you have any. It is always a trade-off. I haven't had PhyRTx long but I suspect it is one part of the reason for the huge reliability improvement, but unfortunately three other upgrades were done at the same time, so I can't tell which was responsible.

I use 3dB downstream target SNRM on ADSL2 which gives me around 15-20% more speed compared with 6dB. I can reconfigure BT remotely to change downstream target from one to the other, or even a range of higher and much more conservative options. With very good modems a 3dB target is good enough to still be reliable, not so with less good modems on an ultra long or variable line. But don't listen to me anyway, as I have zero experience of VDSL2. :-)
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Ixel

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Re: ECI G.INP- Updated info April 2018
« Reply #34 on: June 05, 2018, 07:37:10 PM »

Unfortunately there's no such options to change things like SNRM target on VDSL2/FTTC by Openreach, you get what DLM gives you and that's it. However, the Lantiq/Infineon chipset can adjust the SNRM target offset for the downstream provided that your connection isn't banded by DLM. I do this on one of my two lines, as one performs better than the other.
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ejs

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Re: ECI G.INP- Updated info April 2018
« Reply #35 on: June 05, 2018, 07:40:21 PM »

I think all Openreach G.INP issues have been mainly due to modem firmware issues, but for whatever reason Openreach always try to adjust something cabinet-side to work around the issue, rather than sorting out the modems. I guess that's still what's happening now.
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Chrysalis

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Re: ECI G.INP- Updated info April 2018
« Reply #36 on: June 05, 2018, 07:47:29 PM »

We have a user from Israel on the forums who is connected to the exact same ECI DSLAM with what certainly appears to be the same 206 firmware.

That particular user has G.INP working perfectly.

It wouldnt surprise me if ECI consider the software working (given its active in other countries), and have advised openreach to just manage the end user devices connected, and openreach cant/wont do that so a possible standoff, either way, stop hoping and waiting for it people, you will just be disappointed.
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Bowdon

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Re: ECI G.INP- Updated info April 2018
« Reply #37 on: June 06, 2018, 10:53:26 AM »

It would be interesting if G.fast pods appeared more in ECI areas. Am I correct in thinking that if they move people to the pod then they remove the line from the ECI cabinet and so would lessen crosstalk for the other lines?
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broadstairs

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Re: ECI G.INP- Updated info April 2018
« Reply #38 on: June 06, 2018, 12:09:27 PM »

It wouldnt surprise me if ECI consider the software working (given its active in other countries), and have advised openreach to just manage the end user devices connected, and openreach cant/wont do that so a possible standoff, either way, stop hoping and waiting for it people, you will just be disappointed.

Assuming it only affects folks with incompatible devices BT could just enable it and when people complain tell them they have an incompatible modem/router. It worked very well indeed on my line for the couple of months it was on for.

Stuart
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spring

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Re: ECI G.INP- Updated info April 2018
« Reply #39 on: June 06, 2018, 04:33:44 PM »

I don't have upstream G.INP though so not sure it's working perfectly xD

Code: [Select]
Stats recorded 06 Jun 2018 18:38:46

DSLAM type / SW version: IFTN:0xb206 (178.6) / v0xb206
Modem/router firmware:  AnnexA version - A2pv6F039x1.d26a
DSL mode:                VDSL2 Profile 17a
Status:                  Showtime
Uptime:                  3 days 3 hours 37 min 55 sec
Resyncs:                0 (since 06 Jun 2018 18:38:40)

Downstream Upstream
Line attenuation (dB):  10.7 0.0
Signal attenuation (dB): Not available on VDSL2
Connection speed (kbps): 44880 3455
SNR margin (dB):        25.1 19.7
Power (dBm):            -14.9 -15.1
Interleave depth:        1 55
INP:                    44.00 2.00
G.INP:                  Enabled Not enabled
Vectoring status:        5 (VECT_UNCONFIGURED)

RSCorr/RS (%):          0.0000 0.0115
RSUnCorr/RS (%):        0.0000 0.0000
ES/hour:                0 0


                              G.INP Counters

Downstream Upstream
General
rtx_tx          713110          0               
rtx_c            50              0               
rtx_uc          0                0               
LEFTRS          0                0               
minEFTR          44874            0               
errFreeBits      186268556        0               
Bearer 0
RxQueue          34              0               
TxQueue          17              0               
G.INP Framing    18              0               
G.INP Lookback  17              0               
RRC Bits        0                24             
Interleave depth 1                55             
INP              44.00            2.00           
INPRein          0.00            0.00           
Delay            0                2               
Bearer 1
Interleave depth 1                0               
INP              2.50            0.00           
INPRein          2.50            0.00           
Delay            0                0               
« Last Edit: June 06, 2018, 06:48:38 PM by spring »
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j0hn

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Re: ECI G.INP- Updated info April 2018
« Reply #40 on: June 06, 2018, 06:58:44 PM »

I don't have upstream G.INP though so not sure it's working perfectly xD

I believe the DSLAM isn't capable of upstream G.INP

I'm sure all the UK FTTC users on ECI cabinets would be happy enough with G.INP on the downstream.
It's not enabled by default on the upstream for Huawei DSLAMs.
Only circuits that exceed an (unknown) upstream error threshold have G.INP applied to the upstream. For most lines this only remains for a few days.

I assume your ISP in Israel allows you to use any modem you like?
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Alex Atkin UK

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Re: ECI G.INP- Updated info April 2018
« Reply #41 on: June 10, 2018, 09:35:31 PM »

I believe the DSLAM isn't capable of upstream G.INP

I'm sure all the UK FTTC users on ECI cabinets would be happy enough with G.INP on the downstream.
It's not enabled by default on the upstream for Huawei DSLAMs.
Only circuits that exceed an (unknown) upstream error threshold have G.INP applied to the upstream. For most lines this only remains for a few days.

I assume your ISP in Israel allows you to use any modem you like?

Definitely would be happy with downstream only, never had any problems syncing full speed up its just down that has fallen due to crosstalk.  Annoying as even a drop to a 3dB profile would probably restore me to full speed.

Its so frustrating to have once synced at 99/30 to Digital Region, to now be stuck at 69/20 due to crappy BT hardware.  My attainable upstream is still 28, not that I necessarily need it but would be nice to unband upstream.
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j0hn

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Re: ECI G.INP- Updated info April 2018
« Reply #42 on: June 10, 2018, 10:56:49 PM »

I think I remember reading that Digital Region used Alcatel DSLAM's. Do you know what chipset they used?
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spring

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Re: ECI G.INP- Updated info April 2018
« Reply #43 on: June 11, 2018, 10:21:25 AM »

I believe the DSLAM isn't capable of upstream G.INP

I'm sure all the UK FTTC users on ECI cabinets would be happy enough with G.INP on the downstream.
It's not enabled by default on the upstream for Huawei DSLAMs.
Only circuits that exceed an (unknown) upstream error threshold have G.INP applied to the upstream. For most lines this only remains for a few days.

I assume your ISP in Israel allows you to use any modem you like?
Yes they allow, I didn't know some countries don't. I read somewhere that some modems only support downstream G.INP, so had thought my ISP decided to stick to what works for everyone. However I just googled and you are right, upstream G.INP is stated as not working. Shame.
There's also newer software that this cab doesn't yet have, probably due to their attitude of "if it ain't broke we'll be lazy". I have a feeling it'll never arrive.

The reason I wanted it on US is for lower delay.

Is G.INP efficiently configured for my line right now?

Code: [Select]
Uptime: 7 days 21 hours 48 min 52 sec
Resyncs: 0 (since 11 Jun 2018 12:48:34)

adsl info --stats
adsl: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: Showtime
Last Retrain Reason:    0
Last initialization procedure status:   0
Max:    Upstream rate = 35190 Kbps, Downstream rate = 109403 Kbps
Bearer: 0, Upstream rate = 3455 Kbps, Downstream rate = 44880 Kbps
Bearer: 1, Upstream rate = 0 Kbps, Downstream rate = 0 Kbps
Link Power State:       L0
Mode:                   VDSL2 Annex B
VDSL2 Profile:          Profile 17a
TPS-TC:                 PTM Mode(0x0)
Trellis:                U:ON /D:ON
Line Status:            No Defect
Training Status:        Showtime
                Down            Up
SNR (dB):        25.2            19.6
Attn(dB):        10.7            0.0
Pwr(dBm):       -14.9           -15.1

                        VDSL2 framing
                        Bearer 0
MSGc:           -6              432
B:              235             17
M:              1               1
T:              0               1
R:              14              16
S:              0.0000          0.1569
L:              11951           1734
D:              1               55
I:              250             34
N:              250             34
Q:              8               0
V:              1               0
RxQueue:                34              0
TxQueue:                17              0
G.INP Framing:          18              0
G.INP lookback:         17              0
RRC bits:               0               24
                        Bearer 1
MSGc:           90              -6
B:              0               0
M:              2               0
T:              2               0
R:              16              0
S:              10.6667         0.0000
L:              24              0
D:              1               0
I:              32              0
N:              32              0
Q:              0               0
V:              0               0
RxQueue:                0               0
TxQueue:                0               0
G.INP Framing:          0               0
G.INP lookback:         0               0
RRC bits:               0               0

                        Counters
                        Bearer 0
OHF:            0               712774
OHFErr:         0               0
RS:             3381761384              260908
RSCorr:         280             1160
RSUnCorr:       0               0
                        Bearer 1
OHF:            42534848                0
OHFErr:         0               0
RS:             255208716               0
RSCorr:         0               0
RSUnCorr:       0               0

                        Retransmit Counters
rtx_tx:         713156          0
rtx_c:          96              0
rtx_uc:         0               0

                        G.INP Counters
LEFTRS:         0               0
minEFTR:        44874           0
errFreeBits:    467481887               0

                        Bearer 0
HEC:            0               0
OCD:            0               0
LCD:            0               0
Total Cells:    3132162333              0
Data Cells:     377690881               0
Drop Cells:     0
Bit Errors:     0               0

                        Bearer 1
HEC:            0               0
OCD:            0               0
LCD:            0               0
Total Cells:    0               0
Data Cells:     0               0
Drop Cells:     0
Bit Errors:     0               0

ES:             0               0
SES:            0               0
UAS:            26              26
AS:             683332

                        Bearer 0
INP:            44.00           2.00
INPRein:        0.00            0.00
delay:          0               2
PER:            0.00            17.24
OR:             0.01            203.20
AgR:            44951.38        3657.71

                        Bearer 1
INP:            2.50            0.00
INPRein:        2.50            0.00
delay:          0               0
PER:            16.06           0.01
OR:             47.81           0.01
AgR:            47.81   0.01

Bitswap:        114/114         0/0

Total time = 7 days 21 hours 49 min 18 sec
FEC:            280             1160
CRC:            0               0
ES:             0               0
SES:            0               0
UAS:            26              26
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Latest 15 minutes time = 4 min 18 sec
FEC:            0               0
CRC:            0               0
ES:             0               0
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Previous 15 minutes time = 15 min 0 sec
FEC:            0               0
CRC:            0               0
ES:             0               0
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Latest 1 day time = 21 hours 49 min 18 sec
FEC:            10              186
CRC:            0               0
ES:             0               0
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Previous 1 day time = 24 hours 0 sec
FEC:            23              126
CRC:            0               0
ES:             0               0
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Since Link time = 7 days 21 hours 48 min 51 sec
FEC:            280             1160
CRC:            0               0
ES:             0               0
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
NTR: mipsCntAtNtr=0 ncoCntAtNtr=0
 >

adsl info --pbParams
adsl: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: Showtime
Last Retrain Reason:    0
Last initialization procedure status:   0
Max:    Upstream rate = 35190 Kbps, Downstream rate = 109399 Kbps
Bearer: 0, Upstream rate = 3455 Kbps, Downstream rate = 44880 Kbps
Bearer: 1, Upstream rate = 0 Kbps, Downstream rate = 0 Kbps
Discovery Phase (Initial) Band Plan
US: (6,31) (882,1193) (1984,2770)
DS: (33,857) (1218,1959) (2795,4083)
Medley Phase (Final) Band Plan
US: (6,31) (882,1193) (1984,2770)
DS: (41,857) (1218,1959) (2795,4083)
                  VDSL Port Details               Upstream                Downstream
Attainable Net Data Rate:           35190 kbps             109399 kbps
Actual Aggregate Tx Power:         -  15.1 dBm            -  14.9 dBm
====================================================================================
  VDSL Band Status U0 U1 U2 U3 U4 D1 D2 D3
  Line Attenuation(dB): 0.1 10.1 15.1 N/A N/A 6.3 12.7 20.6
Signal Attenuation(dB): 0.1 10.0 14.9 N/A N/A 6.3 12.6 20.6
        SNR Margin(dB): 24.3 20.2 19.1 N/A N/A 25.1 25.2 25.3
         TX Power(dBm): -17.7 -19.1 -27.8 N/A N/A 12.3 8.1 6.8
 >
« Last Edit: June 11, 2018, 11:17:09 AM by spring »
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j0hn

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Re: ECI G.INP- Updated info April 2018
« Reply #44 on: June 11, 2018, 11:39:53 AM »

Yes G.INP is efficiently configured on the downstream.

Your upstream is interleaved, but it looks like fairly light interleaving with only a 2ms delay.

Happy to be corrected if I've interpreted those stats incorrectly.
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BT FTTC 55/10 ECI now Huawei cab
Zyxel VMG1312-B10A bridge mode with 1508 MTU + Asus RT-AC68U running Asuswrt-Merlin
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