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Author Topic: Master Socket wire wired directly to Modem via RJ11 ..?  (Read 1782 times)

b4z

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Master Socket wire wired directly to Modem via RJ11 ..?
« on: March 17, 2018, 05:36:25 PM »

***Hypothetically Speaking***  :blush:

What are the implications of wiring the main line that comes into the house, directly to an RJ11 (64PC) plug and connecting that directly into the back of the (HG612) Modem?

It seems unnecessary that the line has to go through all the crap of master socket circuitry, faceplate circuitry, and all the filtering that involves etc. When all i want it as clean and clear as possible signal directly into the Modem.

[The line is never used for voice calls]

There is always the possibility that some of you more experienced/technical people maybe facepalming pretty hard right now.  ;D

Thanks!
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underzone

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Re: Master Socket wire wired directly to Modem via RJ11 ..?
« Reply #1 on: March 17, 2018, 06:17:50 PM »

I do that mate. An RJ11 is crimped onto the end of my dropwire. It should eliminate excess circuit loss/attenuation caused by the NTE.
Just keep the NTE handy so you can put it back on if you ever need to report a line fault  ;)
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b4z

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Re: Master Socket wire wired directly to Modem via RJ11 ..?
« Reply #2 on: March 17, 2018, 07:26:41 PM »

Could you tell me which of the 1/2/3/4 slots on the RJ11 plug, that the white and orange from the drop wire go into, when doing the crimping?  :)

Thanks!
« Last Edit: March 17, 2018, 07:30:35 PM by b4z »
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underzone

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Re: Master Socket wire wired directly to Modem via RJ11 ..?
« Reply #3 on: March 17, 2018, 07:58:07 PM »

The middle pair. So there is a 1 wire gap each side. Like this image (on the right):


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Weaver

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Re: Master Socket wire wired directly to Modem via RJ11 ..?
« Reply #4 on: March 21, 2018, 10:58:49 PM »

I'm with you. I have no filtering as there is no telephone. I use a faceplate converter plate that just turns the BT socket in the back part of the NTE5 master socket into an RJ45 socket ready for a cable to go straight into a modem.
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huwwatkins

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Re: Master Socket wire wired directly to Modem via RJ11 ..?
« Reply #5 on: March 22, 2018, 08:43:14 AM »

Do you have a link to these faceplates?
Thanks

Edit - I think I've found them on AAISP shop but as I have two NTE5C's they are not compatible.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2018, 08:45:17 AM by huwwatkins »
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sevenlayermuddle

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Re: Master Socket wire wired directly to Modem via RJ11 ..?
« Reply #6 on: March 22, 2018, 10:05:57 AM »

It seems unnecessary that the line has to go through all the crap of master socket circuitry, faceplate circuitry, and all the filtering that involves etc.

Happy to stand corrected, but I believe the master socket components, ring capacitor & out of service resistor, as well as being necessary for ringing old phones, are also necessary for BT line testing to work.

If I am correct then without these components your broadband would work fine, but BTs line tests might indicate a fault.

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tubaman

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Re: Master Socket wire wired directly to Modem via RJ11 ..?
« Reply #7 on: March 22, 2018, 01:03:10 PM »

If the line has a speech circuit allocated to it then I would think you are correct.
I doubt the 1.8uF cap and 470k resistor across the circuit will make any noticeable difference.
I would use the standard NTE phone faceplate (ie no filtering) and just make-up a suitable lead to connect to the modem.
 :)

[Moderator edited to correct the mishap.]
« Last Edit: March 22, 2018, 08:50:54 PM by burakkucat »
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burakkucat

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Re: Master Socket wire wired directly to Modem via RJ11 ..?
« Reply #8 on: March 22, 2018, 06:32:13 PM »

Happy to stand corrected, but I believe the master socket components, ring capacitor & out of service resistor, as well as being necessary for ringing old phones, are also necessary for BT line testing to work.

If I am correct then without these components your broadband would work fine, but BTs line tests might indicate a fault.

It is true that the shunt of the series connected 1.8uF capacitor and 470k resistor provides a "signature" as to what is present in the EU domain. If that signature has been recorded as present during previous automated testing, then its sudden absence would be "flagged up" as a potential circuit fault.  :-X

[Mishap corrected.]
« Last Edit: March 22, 2018, 08:50:03 PM by burakkucat »
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sevenlayermuddle

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Re: Master Socket wire wired directly to Modem via RJ11 ..?
« Reply #9 on: March 22, 2018, 08:38:02 PM »

470K resistor

470K resistor

I have never encountered such a resistor.  I have however encountered a resistor of 470,000 ohms, often referred to as 470k.

Couldnt resist it, everybody likes a pedant, dont they?   :blush:   :D

Genuine question -  given common usage of k vs K and my own pedantry,  would an actual 470K resistor be reasonably expected  to have a resistance of 481280 ohms?    ???
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burakkucat

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Re: Master Socket wire wired directly to Modem via RJ11 ..?
« Reply #10 on: March 22, 2018, 08:49:18 PM »

Genuine question -  given common usage of k vs K and my own pedantry,  would an actual 470K resistor be reasonably expected  to have a resistance of 481280 ohms?    ???

No, it would have a temperature of 470 K (where K is the SI unit of temperature, Kelvin).  :-[

[b*cat pads off to correct the inexactitude as a result of a momentary mishap.]
« Last Edit: March 22, 2018, 08:52:50 PM by burakkucat »
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Black Sheep

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Re: Master Socket wire wired directly to Modem via RJ11 ..?
« Reply #11 on: March 22, 2018, 09:00:30 PM »

It is true that the shunt of the series connected 1.8uF capacitor and 470k resistor provides a "signature" as to what is present in the EU domain. If that signature has been recorded as present during previous automated testing, then its sudden absence would be "flagged up" as a potential circuit fault.  :-X

[Mishap corrected.]

It would indeed, Mr cat.

It would show itself as a 'dis' (disconnection) on any remote line tests, performed by the CP/ISP.
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underzone

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Re: Master Socket wire wired directly to Modem via RJ11 ..?
« Reply #12 on: March 22, 2018, 09:39:54 PM »

It probably wouldn't show as dis. (disconnected) when a modem/router is actually connected to the line.... This homehub 5 has the gas discharge and the DC block capacitor inbuilt, similar to an NTE5:



Either way, the line will have -50V DC marking it as active, dial tone and also a VDSL signal present.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2018, 09:43:04 PM by underzone »
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Black Sheep

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Re: Master Socket wire wired directly to Modem via RJ11 ..?
« Reply #13 on: March 22, 2018, 09:53:57 PM »

It probably wouldn't show as dis. (disconnected) when a modem/router is actually connected to the line.... This homehub 5 has the gas discharge and the DC block capacitor inbuilt, similar to an NTE5:



Either way, the line will have -50V DC marking it as active, dial tone and also a VDSL signal present.

I couldn't comment on the Hub acting as an NTE, as I've never had that particular situation whilst faulting.

I don't know what is meant by your other comment though ?? All bog-standard VDSL broadband circuits will have those three symptoms you mention, present ............ it's whether those same three symptoms are reaching the end-users master socket, that matters.

The only way the CP/ISP's have to try and deduce this, is to run the remote test from the test-heads to the capacitor in the master socket.
It depends on what that test result returns, as to what the next stage of the fault process will be .... ie: appointed engineering visit or otherwise.
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burakkucat

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Re: Master Socket wire wired directly to Modem via RJ11 ..?
« Reply #14 on: March 22, 2018, 10:18:12 PM »

.... This homehub 5 has the gas discharge and the DC block capacitor inbuilt, . . .

The over-voltage protection device, agreed, that is identical to the original NTE5/A.

However you are misinterpreting the capacitor, it is not part of a RC shunt across the pair but part of the high-pass filter. The high-pass filter blocks the low-frequency audio of the telephony service, and the baseband DC presence, whilst allowing the higher frequency xDSL signal through to the analogue front-end of the modem.
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