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Author Topic: New line install question  (Read 7076 times)

Ixel

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New line install question
« on: February 17, 2018, 11:12:01 AM »

Hi all,
Hoping someone here might know the answer to my question, especially an Openreach engineer.

I'm moving house soon and the master socket is currently located in the dining room. I want it located in the front bedroom, so I've ordered a new line install as SIM provide (though Zen still haven't given me a committed date or the SIM reference and it's been two days now) so I'm thinking of just ordering with AAISP and using the stopped line in the dining room temporarily as it might activate quicker and in time for the house move.

My question is this... if I still have a new line installed by Zen for the phone calls only then will the engineer also move the current master socket if I ask or will he just place a new master socket next to the one in the dining room for the second line?
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Black Sheep

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Re: New line install question
« Reply #1 on: February 17, 2018, 11:39:34 AM »

So much confusion around installation 'do's and dont's' ......... I still to this day can't quite get my head around the full rules, but by way of a guide ........

I would definitely confirm with your CP (Not ISP, as you are choosing PSTN services only on the new line), that your connection fee covers the engineers time on-site installing the master socket exactly where you want it ??

Please bear in mind, with any CP and any installation task, the maximum time on a bog-standard task is for the work to take no more than 2hrs to wire from the DP to where you want the master socket.
If it is going to take longer than 2hrs, then we have to send the task back requesting further TRC (Time Related Charges) banding be applied before we go ahead with the installation.

Of course, most residential premises will easily fall under the 2hr remit, but thought it worth a mention.  :)
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Ixel

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Re: New line install question
« Reply #2 on: February 17, 2018, 11:46:57 AM »

Thanks Black Sheep.

Yes, I did specify to Zen (who's doing the new line install only, not broadband as that'll be with AAISP) that I want the master socket relocated to another room and they said the order should be placed as a new line installation so an engineer turns up. I did the same for the house I'm currently in about two years ago (new line install) and the engineer relocated the master socket from the kitchen to the front bedroom.

Two hours is more than enough time I believe, I'd be amazed if it took longer than two hours :P. Thanks for mentioning it though.

My main concern is that as I've now placed an order with AAISP for the stopped line to be reactivated, when I eventually get a date from Zen regarding the new line install for voice calls only then will the engineer who turns up be fine with moving the current master socket (that will have AAISP on) to the front bedroom where I also want the new line setup (Zen)? Apologies if that sounds confusing. I'm hoping the two hours remit you mentioned will allow this.
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re0

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Re: New line install question
« Reply #3 on: February 17, 2018, 11:51:19 AM »

Someone may be able to provide a better answer as I am not 100% sure (and I am not an engineer), but I think I understood your question.

When you have the second line installed, you can have it installed anywhere within reason; it needs to be accessible by the engineer, and allow the use of existing ducting (if applicable, unless overhead direct to the pole). You just have to make where you want it clear when the engineer turns up.

As for moving the existing master socket, this is not something that can be done during your new [second] line installation appointment since your appointment will be max. three hours and for the new line in itself the engineer will need to make a hole in your wall, connect your drop to an existing pair at the pole (or underground if ducted), carry out works to the cabinet, connect the terminals to your socket and test it before leaving. Ignoring the fact they are installing a different, new service, if they could move the existing master socket they would be bound by the time constraints, and even if they had time they would be working with the existing cabling which would not leave much room for maneuver.

Essentially, if you wanted the master socket moved you would need to request this through the ISP who would probably advise that it is chargeable.
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Ixel

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Re: New line install question
« Reply #4 on: February 17, 2018, 12:23:51 PM »

Someone may be able to provide a better answer as I am not 100% sure (and I am not an engineer), but I think I understood your question.

When you have the second line installed, you can have it installed anywhere within reason; it needs to be accessible by the engineer, and allow the use of existing ducting (if applicable, unless overhead direct to the pole). You just have to make where you want it clear when the engineer turns up.

As for moving the existing master socket, this is not something that can be done during your new [second] line installation appointment since your appointment will be max. three hours and for the new line in itself the engineer will need to make a hole in your wall, connect your drop to an existing pair at the pole (or underground if ducted), carry out works to the cabinet, connect the terminals to your socket and test it before leaving. Ignoring the fact they are installing a different, new service, if they could move the existing master socket they would be bound by the time constraints, and even if they had time they would be working with the existing cabling which would not leave much room for maneuver.

Essentially, if you wanted the master socket moved you would need to request this through the ISP who would probably advise that it is chargeable.

I see, thanks, yeah that makes sense. I guess I'll just have to leave the master socket(s) in the dining room and run a rather long LAN cable upstairs then. I don't believe there's another way around it other than paying a lot just for an engineer to come out and move the master socket.

I'll see what Zen eventually come back to me with regarding the earliest 'committed date' for installing a new line, I have until March 6th which is when I move in, so maybe there's still enough time. I might be able to cancel the current AAISP order which is currently scheduled to be activated on or by the March 5th (remotely activate a stopped line) and re-order as SIM provide if Zen give me a good enough committed date for the new line install w/ SIM provide.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2018, 12:27:54 PM by Ixel »
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re0

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Re: New line install question
« Reply #5 on: February 17, 2018, 12:54:38 PM »

I see, thanks, yeah that makes sense. I guess I'll just have to leave the master socket(s) in the dining room and run a rather long LAN cable upstairs then.

Is there a specific reason to why you want to have both lines terminating in the same place? Because as long as you ordered a new line installation then as long as they can access the area you want it installed it should be possible.

I don't believe there's another way around it other than paying a lot just for an engineer to come out and move the master socket.

Cost is subjective, but the value depends on how moving the master socket will benefit you. From what I have seen, the cost of moving the master socket is roughly the price of a new line installation (around 130). If you need access to the line in a different room, extensions (slave socket) can be fitted by Openreach for around half the price but you would have to enquire that. But ultimately, you could just have the modems in the dining room and run Ethernet cables across the skirting board, drill a couple of holes and fit sockets in the bedroom (or whatever suits you best).

There are probably ex-Openreach engineers who would move the move the master socket for you cheaply, but I can't say there would be much maneuvering the existing cabling.
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Ixel

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Re: New line install question
« Reply #6 on: February 17, 2018, 01:02:13 PM »

Is there a specific reason to why you want to have both lines terminating in the same place? Because as long as you ordered a new line installation then as long as they can access the area you want it installed it should be possible.

Cost is subjective, but the value depends on how moving the master socket will benefit you. From what I have seen, the cost of moving the master socket is roughly the price of a new line installation (around 130). If you need access to the line in a different room, extensions (slave socket) can be fitted by Openreach for around half the price but you would have to enquire that. But ultimately, you could just have the modems in the dining room and run Ethernet cables across the skirting board, drill a couple of holes and fit sockets in the bedroom (or whatever suits you best).

There are probably ex-Openreach engineers who would move the move the master socket for you cheaply, but I can't say there would be much maneuvering the existing cabling.

Well, I've done it like this is because I want the broadband activated ideally not too far from after I've moved in as I work remotely from home.

The ex-Openreach engineer is an interesting idea, but even if that were do-able isn't that 'illegal' since it's still not someone who is actively working for Openreach? I also have all the tools to relocate the wiring myself but I'm not allowed to touch the master socket hence why I was hoping I could get Openreach to do so without paying a fortune just for that task :P.

Other option I guess is I could do my own extension wiring using better quality cable (not the flat stuff)?
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Ronski

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Re: New line install question
« Reply #7 on: February 17, 2018, 01:47:38 PM »

There may be enough pairs in the existing feed wire, so relocating the original master to where you want the new one may well be doable in the allotted time. The feed for the new one may just be taken from the old one, if that makes sense.

Is it overhead feed or underground?

I know quite a few people who've moved their master socket, as long as you're competent, and do it correctly no one will be any the wiser  ;) well except anyone who reads this forum  :-X
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Black Sheep

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Re: New line install question
« Reply #8 on: February 17, 2018, 01:57:41 PM »

You'll be getting a knock on the door, very soon ....  :police: :police: :police: ;D
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Ixel

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Re: New line install question
« Reply #9 on: February 17, 2018, 02:02:30 PM »

There may be enough pairs in the existing feed wire, so relocating the original master to where you want the new one may well be doable in the allotted time. The feed for the new one may just be taken from the old one, if that makes sense.

Yeah most likely. Well I'll offer refreshments such as some biscuits and tea or a cappuccino from my coffee machine (like from Starbucks or Costa Coffee) so maybe that'll help ;).

Is it overhead feed or underground?

It's an overhead drop wire that comes into the back of the house, so if it was to be relocated to the front bedroom I guess the engineer would have to route the cable through the back bedroom first. I doubt it'll reach though so that might be a problem unless they have an option to extend on to the wire?

I know quite a few people who've moved their master socket, as long as you're competent, and do it correctly no one will be any the wiser  ;) well except anyone who reads this forum  :-X

Yeah :lol:, while I can do this easily without anyone realising (other than those on here that is), I don't know if I have the guts to do so as it's 'not allowed' really. Maybe as a last resort :D.

You'll be getting a knock on the door, very soon ....  :police: :police: :police: ;D

Shh..... ;)
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Ronski

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Re: New line install question
« Reply #10 on: February 17, 2018, 02:23:27 PM »

It's an overhead drop wire that comes into the back of the house, so if it was to be relocated to the front bedroom I guess the engineer would have to route the cable through the back bedroom first. I doubt it'll reach though so that might be a problem unless they have an option to extend on to the wire?

Does the cable come around the outside from the front of the house to the back? If so there will be plenty of cable to relocate to the front. If not they can extend it as well.

Two of my brothers have the master socket in the loft, as both cables ran down the outside of the house there was plenty of cable to reach the new location. Engineers will not go into a loft, but I believe they are OK to work off of a loft ladder or there own, so both master sockets in my brothers cases are located just inside the loft hatch. One was done by an engineer, he went up the outside of the house, poked the cable in which my brother retrieved and pulled across to the loft hatch. The engineer then fitted the master socket. My brother then run phone extensions and a data extension as required, which you are allowed to do.
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Ronski

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Re: New line install question
« Reply #11 on: February 17, 2018, 02:25:36 PM »

You'll be getting a knock on the door, very soon ....  :police: :police: :police: ;D

That's fine, an OR engineer relocated mine FOC when I had FTTC installed, I'll not be mentioning any other names though........ :P
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ktz392837

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Re: New line install question
« Reply #12 on: February 17, 2018, 04:52:31 PM »



One was done by an engineer, he went up the outside of the house, poked the cable in which my brother retrieved and pulled across to the loft hatch. The engineer then fitted the master socket. My brother then run phone extensions and a data extension as required, which you are allowed to do.
Would this be something any engineer would normally do?  I have no idea where my cable goes so it concerns me if it ever needs changing there would be problems.   It enters in the loft and ends up downstairs somehow but if engineer would just poke it through and put the socket at the top of the loft ladder that would put my mind at rest?  Hopefully it would never need changing.  Thanks

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Ixel

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Re: New line install question
« Reply #13 on: February 17, 2018, 04:53:51 PM »

Does the cable come around the outside from the front of the house to the back? If so there will be plenty of cable to relocate to the front. If not they can extend it as well.

Two of my brothers have the master socket in the loft, as both cables ran down the outside of the house there was plenty of cable to reach the new location. Engineers will not go into a loft, but I believe they are OK to work off of a loft ladder or there own, so both master sockets in my brothers cases are located just inside the loft hatch. One was done by an engineer, he went up the outside of the house, poked the cable in which my brother retrieved and pulled across to the loft hatch. The engineer then fitted the master socket. My brother then run phone extensions and a data extension as required, which you are allowed to do.

Nope, comes in the back from a nearby pole. I see.

Oddly even though I made an order to restart a stopped line I've just had a message from AAISP informing me I will need to be available for the engineer on the morning of the 6th. In the meantime Zen's order is still waiting for a committed date, lol. I guess Zen's system isn't fully automated or as efficient as AAISP's is, as the order on AAISP is now 'committed' and the FTTC part (TTB) is on 'coolingoff' while it waits for the PSTN bit to be done on the same day.

Even though I'll lose the phone number I'm wondering at this point whether I should just cancel the Zen order and cease the line at my current place after I've moved, as I've got no real certainty that the engineer will move both master sockets. So I might be better off doing the extension wiring myself with better quality cable or... you know, yeah :P. That's also assuming I can cancel the new line install order with Zen.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2018, 04:59:54 PM by Ixel »
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Ronski

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Re: New line install question
« Reply #14 on: February 17, 2018, 06:37:29 PM »

Would this be something any engineer would normally do?  I have no idea where my cable goes so it concerns me if it ever needs changing there would be problems.   It enters in the loft and ends up downstairs somehow but if engineer would just poke it through and put the socket at the top of the loft ladder that would put my mind at rest?  Hopefully it would never need changing.  Thanks

I'm pretty certain the engineer won't go in the loft, but they will work off the loft ladder to mount the socket. Black Sheep will be much better informed to answer what they are and aren't allowed to do.
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