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Author Topic: Advice on getting a 2nd FTTC Line Fitted  (Read 8730 times)

Black Sheep

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Re: Advice on getting a 2nd FTTC Line Fitted
« Reply #30 on: February 27, 2018, 08:54:13 PM »


Your explanation does clarify the situation a lot clearer, he definitely referenced it being a buried joint and that it needed investigating.  Thats when however he seemed to say it could be a bit of a game changer for my situation as it is down to Openreach for originally doing a buried joint in the first place.  He said that if at some point in the future they decided to to FTTP on the street then this work would need doing anyway.  So if another pair is available, when you say "pushed" is that using special tools or could the case be that the path needs digging up along to the JB23 outside my premises?

He did also mention he recalled the figure is around 1000 as well.



Adam

No problem at all, Adam .... like all folk on kitz we're happy to assist where possible.  :)

Just for info purposes, your engineer is correct in as much as 'back in't day' on the up-coming estates the preferred method was to lie the cables DIG (Direct In Ground), as opposed to laying duct and then pulling the cables in later.

As a result, the 'spine cable' would be quite large at one end of the estate where its journey begins, ( usually 75 or 100 pair), and as it continues its journey it would become decreasingly smaller as there would be a BJ (affectionately know as a 'submarine joint', as it vaguely resembles the sea-going vessel) outside each premises, where a 'pair' would be 'dropped off' to feed each individual house.

In your case, two 'pairs' are being dropped off to feed you and your neighbour.

So, with all things being equal, there has to be an 'end' to the 'spine' and this is when shortfalls of 'pairs' become more prevalent.

By 'pushing a pair', I mean there may be two spine cables in the BJ that's being excavated that may have spare capacity, this would enable a 'spare pair' to be connected to the cable going on towards the JB23 outside your house .... affectionately termed, 'pushing a pair'. No fancy tools or work is required.

 :)
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Adam86

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Re: Advice on getting a 2nd FTTC Line Fitted
« Reply #31 on: March 08, 2018, 05:34:07 PM »

Little update, nothing major but thought I'd keep you guys informed.

Yesterday a surveyor turned up and measured up for the the job to arrange the running of a new cable from the DP to the wall.  Took a couple of pictures as well and had me sign a form.  He said it was nothing of a job with approx 3m soft dig, tiny amount of pavement to dig next to the JB23 and that the contractors would be fighting over the job.  He said he was going to submit the information and notice needs putting into the council as well for the pavement dig.  He seemed to think there would be absolutely no issue with any costing and again mentioned the 1000 limit and that it should be well within that.  He said he would be recommending an armored cable for this job and that it will just be buried around the edge of the flowerbed and brought along to the wall.

I asked him about the so call buried joint further down the road that was a bigger issue and he said that wasn't anything to do with what he had come out for, however his notes were not particularly clear but apparantly a spare pair has been "diverted" for me so he doesnt think it is an issue now.  He said once this new cable is laid, when the engineer comes to finish the job, if there is indeed still an issue still then it is up to them to follow it through and that he believed it would be at the expense of Openreach and not myself.

This afternoon, someone else from Openreach came and again he said that the notes he had been given were very poor but he was coming to look at the job properly.  He mentioned about this diverted pair that had been arranged again, which is apparantly across the other side of the road and he was working out the best way to get it across as the buried joint sits along someones driveway and isn't ideal to dig up.  Apparantly though closer our house, there is another DP and a DP opposite fairly adjacent to each other and he says they will have to dig up a section of the road and connect the two together.  Also he mentioned the opposite side has a lot of new ducting in place due to issues in the past.  He said OR will need to get planning permission though so it's probably going to at least be a few weeks to progress!

Sounds like I am causing a bit of trouble in the neighbourhood :blush:, but it does sound like it is going in the right direction and it's just going to take some time to get sorted?

Cheers
Adam
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burakkucat

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Re: Advice on getting a 2nd FTTC Line Fitted
« Reply #32 on: March 08, 2018, 05:46:54 PM »

Progress is occurring, so that's something positive. Hopefully everything will just fall into place and the job will be successful.
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Adam86

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Re: Advice on getting a 2nd FTTC Line Fitted
« Reply #33 on: March 14, 2018, 04:31:59 PM »

Progress has been made today, I now have a new drop wire to my wall!

Luckily I was working from home today and some contractors turned up.  Felt like it was going to start a bit awry at first as they said they would have to dig the flowerbed and flowers up as their job said to lay new a new duct! I said my wife would kill me and that the surveyor was recommending to lay an armoured cable so it could just lightly sit beneath the soil with the least disruption.  Anyhow he went on the phone to someone and came back off and said not a problem for the armoured cable and it makes the job better for them.

Just the pair situation to resolve now :-)

Adam
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Adam86

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Re: Advice on getting a 2nd FTTC Line Fitted
« Reply #34 on: March 21, 2018, 06:11:28 PM »

Had a call from someone within Openreach at lunchtime and he said that a design had been submitted to bring additional capacity onto this side of the street but would take more time to carry out and therefore another option had become available in the meantime as a line had been ceased a couple of doors down (tennants moved out) and the plan was to "steal" the pair in the mean time whilst this work is to be done (he said it has to be done regardless).

Funnily enough I got home and not long after an Openreach van parked up, he came to speak to me and said he wasn't sure why he had been sent back out as the remedial work hadnt been done.  I explained to him what I was told on the phone and he said he would take a look into it although he wasn't entirely happy at doing this as he said most likely Openreach in there infinite wisdom would probably not add any extra pairs if this job is shut off leaving new tennants without service if they tried taking a phone line out.

Anyhow, it was true that the line was ceased, but he mentioned something about this pair and the one that connects the neighbours being a split pair and therefore not ideal for broadband services, but said he would try it anyway.  Plugged my gear in and it just kept resyncing constantly, the highest I saw it was 50mbit and the lowest was 18mbit.  He said he wasnt a broadband engineer and couldnt diagnose it further but suspects it was down to the pair being split so he went onto disconnect it again so he can close off the job as me still not having any service.

Looks like it's going to be another waiting game again now.

Adam
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burakkucat

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Re: Advice on getting a 2nd FTTC Line Fitted
« Reply #35 on: March 21, 2018, 06:58:09 PM »

Hmm . . . Split legs of a pair is a definite "No" in broadband terms and are not ideal for telephony. (In the latter case, it is a bit of a botch.)
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Adam86

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Re: Advice on getting a 2nd FTTC Line Fitted
« Reply #36 on: March 22, 2018, 08:21:32 AM »

Hmm . . . Split legs of a pair is a definite "No" in broadband terms and are not ideal for telephony. (In the latter case, it is a bit of a botch.)

Sounds like the engineer did the right thing by recommending to disconnect this and mark the job as me still having no service.  From what I could understand, he said the other end of the pair that are split are within the buried joint so he simply couldn't sort it out - would that make sense?

Adam
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burakkucat

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Re: Advice on getting a 2nd FTTC Line Fitted
« Reply #37 on: March 22, 2018, 06:03:51 PM »

. . . he said the other end of the pair that are split are within the buried joint so he simply couldn't sort it out - would that make sense?

Yes, that makes perfect sense.

Even if he could gain access to the "other end", its likely that there would be nothing he could do . . . as one wire of pair-X and one wire of pair-Y would probably have been damaged. So, at sometime in the past, to make a (sort of) working circuit for a telephony service the undamaged wires from pair-X and pair-Y have been used. The AC balance for such a circuit would be poor and totally unacceptable for a broadband service.
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Adam86

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Re: Advice on getting a 2nd FTTC Line Fitted
« Reply #38 on: April 09, 2018, 05:00:12 PM »

Civils have been on the street for most of the day today and have now put new ducting in from the JB23 at my neighbours to the buried joint ready for Openreach to pull new cable through.

He said it will remain a buried joint as its too deep to pull out and place into a chamber and there isnt enough slack on the cable.  When I had a peak all I could see was what looked to be an iron looking pipe that goes under the road in the direction to the larger chamber, looks like a hole into it had been smashed with the digger (intentionally?).  My presumption is that cable will be fed through the new ducting and then rods will be used to feed this through under the road and into the chamber and connected up there.

One of the guys said its only a 3 day permit, so Openreach will do their work tomorrow and they will come back to finish the civils work off.

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burakkucat

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Re: Advice on getting a 2nd FTTC Line Fitted
« Reply #39 on: April 09, 2018, 05:12:18 PM »

My presumption is that cable will be fed through the new ducting and then rods will be used to feed this through under the road and into the chamber and connected up there.

If I understand and interpret things correctly, there won't be a buried joint for your new pair. Just a contiguous length of cable from the JB23 to the joint in the chamber on the other side of the road. (Is it a chamber or just a joint box? How does it compare to the size of a human being? If it's large enough for someone to get into and the lid can be shut, then it's a chamber. Otherwise it's a joint box.)
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Adam86

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Re: Advice on getting a 2nd FTTC Line Fitted
« Reply #40 on: April 09, 2018, 05:24:03 PM »

If I understand and interpret things correctly, there won't be a buried joint for your new pair. Just a contiguous length of cable from the JB23 to the joint in the chamber on the other side of the road. (Is it a chamber or just a joint box? How does it compare to the size of a human being? If it's large enough for someone to get into and the lid can be shut, then it's a chamber. Otherwise it's a joint box.)

It may very well be a joint box, there's actually two near each other at the other side of the road and i think this terminates to the one with two covers.

I'll double check later when I go out for a walk.

I'm guessing that the cable between the JB23 near me and wherever it terminates to will have multiple pairs within it, wonder if it might be feasible/good idea to see if they will move my first line over to that as well, I'll have a segment of cable all to myself then as I can't see anyone else nearby needing any lift and shift work done I guess...I think i've got a couple of pesky crosstalkers quite near me.  Mind you, it might not help really.  I got 6mbit sync back with having the new drop wire installed and seperated from my next door neighbour.
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burakkucat

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Re: Advice on getting a 2nd FTTC Line Fitted
« Reply #41 on: April 09, 2018, 06:01:08 PM »

I'm guessing that the cable between the JB23 near me and wherever it terminates to will have multiple pairs within it, wonder if it might be feasible/good idea to see if they will move my first line over to that as well, I'll have a segment of cable all to myself then as I can't see anyone else nearby needing any lift and shift work done I guess...I think i've got a couple of pesky crosstalkers quite near me.

I was wondering if that might be a possibility.

Quote
I got 6mbit sync back with having the new drop wire installed and seperated from my next door neighbour.

The pesky b*cat is in pedantic mode . . . Hopefully that was 6 Mbps and with an underground feed there is no "drop wire" just a service feed.  ;)
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Chrysalis

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Re: Advice on getting a 2nd FTTC Line Fitted
« Reply #42 on: April 10, 2018, 07:01:13 AM »

Sounds like the engineer did the right thing by recommending to disconnect this and mark the job as me still having no service.  From what I could understand, he said the other end of the pair that are split are within the buried joint so he simply couldn't sort it out - would that make sense?

Adam
agreed he wanted things done right
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Adam86

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Re: Advice on getting a 2nd FTTC Line Fitted
« Reply #43 on: April 12, 2018, 01:23:30 PM »

Well on Tuesday the cable was pulled through and my 2nd line is now sucessfully installed!  The cable pull was around 35 metres and this is a 20 pair cable between the two joints.

The guy from OR also connected my original line to this new cable segment as well (at first he wasn't going to but then said he might as well put the new cable to use), one on the first pair and the other on the last pair so they dont run directly alongside each other as such.

Interestingly enough, if the modem for the 2nd line is powered off, my 1st line syncs up at 78Mbps, it just shows the effect of crosstalk from my immediate neighbours I guess.  As soon as the modem for the 2nd line is powered on and synced up, the 1st line drops to 68Mbps attainable sync.  So far I've only seen the 2nd line sync up at 70Mbps maximum, I am guessing that the 2nd line routes to the cabinet differently as opposed to the 1st one so must be picking up some crosstalk.  Theres also probably roughly 10 metres between the neighbours joint and mine, so I'm guessing the pairs must be along side each other and that might be the explanation of the sudden loss in the attainable on the 1st line?

Both lines with load balancing using mwan3 on LEDE/OpenWRT and I am getting approx 125Mbps download and roughly 36Mbps upload.

Whats the best way to export some stats in DSLStats now for you guys to see how the lines are looking?

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burakkucat

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Re: Advice on getting a 2nd FTTC Line Fitted
« Reply #44 on: April 12, 2018, 05:45:39 PM »

Thank you for that update. I think we can say that your new circuit install was a success.  :)
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