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Author Topic: Advice on getting a 2nd FTTC Line Fitted  (Read 8731 times)

Adam86

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Re: Advice on getting a 2nd FTTC Line Fitted
« Reply #15 on: February 20, 2018, 04:09:23 PM »

Hmm, I think I might have a problem when it comes to getting the 2nd line installed.  Had a nosy at the terminal box (or whatever the correct name is) inbetween the neighbours and our house seeing as the cover is broken and secured with tape.

The main cable coming from underground does not appear to have any spare pairs.  Don't know how a new cable would be ran? Don't know if it makes any difference but almost in line with this terminal is a duct between the two properties on the pavement.

See attached pictures.
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j0hn

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Re: Advice on getting a 2nd FTTC Line Fitted
« Reply #16 on: February 20, 2018, 04:27:07 PM »

They will simply feed a new drop wire from the nearest Distribution point. Not a problem.
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Adam86

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Re: Advice on getting a 2nd FTTC Line Fitted
« Reply #17 on: February 20, 2018, 05:15:10 PM »

They will simply feed a new drop wire from the nearest Distribution point. Not a problem.

Cool, just wasn't sure with the current wire going under the slab.  No idea where the other end is or how they'd feed it lol
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Black Sheep

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Re: Advice on getting a 2nd FTTC Line Fitted
« Reply #18 on: February 20, 2018, 05:33:35 PM »

It won't be a dropwire they use to provide extra 'pairs' ..... duct  will be run from the rectangular iron lid (JB23) in your photo, to where the black circular box is. A cable will then be pulled through the duct and the black box replaced by a grey BT66 box.

At the moment, the 'feed' cable is 'DIG' (Direct In Ground armoured cable), and as such is not routed through duct.

The duct track appears to be Virgin Media, it is definitely not Openreach.
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Adam86

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Re: Advice on getting a 2nd FTTC Line Fitted
« Reply #19 on: February 20, 2018, 06:55:31 PM »

It won't be a dropwire they use to provide extra 'pairs' ..... duct  will be run from the rectangular iron lid (JB23) in your photo, to where the black circular box is. A cable will then be pulled through the duct and the black box replaced by a grey BT66 box.

At the moment, the 'feed' cable is 'DIG' (Direct In Ground armoured cable), and as such is not routed through duct.

The duct track appears to be Virgin Media, it is definitely not Openreach.

OK that does makes some more sense, will be interesting to see this work take place as I'm really not sure myself how a duct would run from the rectangular lid to the current circular box due to walls and stuff and the properties being slightly lower than the paths etc.  This sort of thing is not something I get to see so I could just be looking at it too much! Is this all something the engineer will be able to do when he comes out in one visit? or is it going to be one of these jobs where it will need a revisit to actually carry out any of the work?

Yes the triangular points on the ground are Virgin Media's cabling ducts, would rather have a reliable service than take their services on ;-)
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Black Sheep

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Re: Advice on getting a 2nd FTTC Line Fitted
« Reply #20 on: February 20, 2018, 09:11:59 PM »

Engineers don't perform civil works anymore, haven't done for over 25+ yrs apart from the odd job by our 'Soft Dig' teams ....

The way it would usually work is:

You raise an order with your ISP/CP ..... we then turn up at the appointed date and time .... realisation sinks in that there is a 'Plant shortfall' on your underground feed ..... agreement is reached between yourself and the on-site engineer on the best/most aesthetic method of digging and providing duct-work to your premises (if it's private property) ....... an 'A55' (Diagram of route to be taken for duct-work and written description) is input for our contractors to perform said work ....... remedial duct-work is performed by the contractor ....... the engineer re-visits site to a) pull in a larger cable through the new duct and terminate at both ends, and b) Install the new wire to where your new socket is to be sited.

Now, there are slight variations on the above practice, and those will be subject to local working practices. I can't cover every single eventuality .... but the above is pretty much what will happen.
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Adam86

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Re: Advice on getting a 2nd FTTC Line Fitted
« Reply #21 on: February 20, 2018, 09:45:31 PM »

Black Sheep, your explanation is very in depth and I understand so thanks for taking the time to clarify everything.

At least now on Tuesday I know what the situation will be.  Is this done at any extra cost or is the cost usually absorbed?

Thanks
Adam
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Black Sheep

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Re: Advice on getting a 2nd FTTC Line Fitted
« Reply #22 on: February 20, 2018, 09:54:12 PM »

Won't cost you or the ISP a penny more .... all absorbed by Openreach.
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Adam86

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Re: Advice on getting a 2nd FTTC Line Fitted
« Reply #23 on: February 21, 2018, 01:36:37 PM »

Won't cost you or the ISP a penny more .... all absorbed by Openreach.

Thats a relief :-) Well hopefully there is a easy enough route for new cabling to be done via.  Is there usually a long lead time for these pieces of work to be carried out?

Cheers
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Adam86

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Re: Advice on getting a 2nd FTTC Line Fitted
« Reply #24 on: February 27, 2018, 06:36:08 PM »

OK Openreach came this morning to the house but things all feel a bit confusing and now I'm a bit miffed and not too sure what direction this is could go in.

Nice lad came from Openreach, and as you said would happen he spotted straight away that there was no spare pair in the feed cable.  He said that a new feed cable would need supplying from the box just outside on the pavement and that it wasnt too much major work as the pavement is higher than the flowerbed in front of our garden and its only around 4 metres distance, meaning that whoever does the work wouldnt have to dig deep to get the cable though.  He said they would probably just duct up to the wall beneath at the top of the flower bed and then cable tap the new cable along side the party wall and then onto our wall - or alternatively dig the cable into the ground along side the edge of the flower bed and then bring it back up.  He said the job would be done neatly and to a decent standard.  Usually a 7 day lead time for these kind of things but can take longer.

He said that he would proceed to get the new socket fitted and cabled up to the spare pair that runs to the black box from my main socket.  He then said he would start work at the JB23 to find a spare pair that can be used and said he would approx be one hour as he would have to head down the road - pressumably down to the cabinet.  After 20 minutes he came and knocked on the door and said the situation wasn't looking too good as further down the street where the pairs connect to, there was only 10 available pairs and all were in use.  Work would need to be done to add extra pairs and this could end up being chargeable to me as I already have a line in place to the property anyway.  He said it would be subject to a survey and the decision would be made from there and I would have the choice to either accept or decline if there was a cost.

He left to do everything else he could do and about 30 minutes later i saw him down towards the end of the street at the other side of the road with the cover up there, so went for a little nosy, he was using something on my side of the street with what looked like a large magic wand (lol) and it was beeping away.  He said that he had identified that the cabling goes under the road to the cover but at this point on my side there was no cover to access the cabling (or pairs??), therefore they would have to dig this section up to work on it.  He then went on to say that this is now Openreachs responsibility as it is down to how they built this section of the network many years ago and I should not have to worry about any of this cost anymore.

He said the only thing that might come into question would be paying for the work to be done from the JB23 to my property, but he doubts it as its a very small piece of work to do with minimal digging and he said technically I dont have my own feed and have stolen my neighbours spare pair as the feed is clearly on their property and that it would be a bit tight to expect me to pay as I could argue that officially I don't have my own line.  He said a surveyor should come out relatively quickly but probably won't even come speak to me or call me unless they want to charge.

So it looks like it could be a bit of a waiting game now and I could have misunderstood a lot of this and I know I've probably gone on a little bit in this reply but maybe I've got nothing to worry about.

He also changed the faceplate on my current line to the latest revision which is quite interesting really as thats knocked 3mbit off my attainable sync just doing that!

Regards
Adam
« Last Edit: February 27, 2018, 07:11:30 PM by Adam86 »
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burakkucat

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Re: Advice on getting a 2nd FTTC Line Fitted
« Reply #25 on: February 27, 2018, 06:55:39 PM »

Hmm . . . Interesting developments but I feel that I should wait for Black Sheep to make his comments based on your report.
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Black Sheep

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Re: Advice on getting a 2nd FTTC Line Fitted
« Reply #26 on: February 27, 2018, 07:40:19 PM »

Firstly, I would make comment that you've had a bl00dy decent engineer visit you, from the sound of the work he did.

Now then, charging is (as in any business) a big thing, and we have a duty to do so if it is warranted.

The fact that the 'feed box', (We'll call it a BT99, as that is how it is commonly referred to on various job templates), is on the neighbours premises, isn't all that unusual on estates built around the 60/70's ....... we have many similar set-ups on my patch.
I suppose it was a flip of a coin as to which side the dual-feed BT99 was positioned back in the day, it could as easily have been on your premises ??.

I have to admit, I am not au-fait whatsoever with the charging policies of 2nd lines these days ..... there is certainly a ceiling as to how much OR will throw at a 2nd line install, and the figure going around my head is 1K ?? Please don't take that as gospel.

The problem as I see it, isn't the remedial work from the kerb to the premises ( ie: from the JB23 to the BT99, or JB23 to where the newer style BT66 might go ??) .... the issue is the shortfall of 'pairs' further back the 'spine cable' !!

The 'magic wand' he was using is a 'Cat & Genny' ... basically a tool used to trace where our cables run. He must have identified 'spare pairs' or 'stumped pairs' that are measuring to a buried joint (BJ) under the tarmac you mentioned.
Once this has been dug up, it will become clearer as to whether another 'pair' (ie: your 2nd line) can be pushed along towards the JB23 ??

If this can be done, I'll put my neck on the line and hazard a guess that all the rest of the work would be soaked up by your ISP/OR ??.

If it proves otherwise ... then from your description above, it would then mean a new length of duct from the BJ all the way to your premises, to provide the 2nd line.
This is where potential charges may apply ??

Alas, it's purely pie-in-the-sky speculation for the most part, as until the BJ is excavated we won't know what is or isn't achievable ??!!.

Fingers crossed the new 'pair' can be pushed all the way to the JB23 !!!  :)
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Adam86

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Re: Advice on getting a 2nd FTTC Line Fitted
« Reply #27 on: February 27, 2018, 08:29:22 PM »

The engineer was great I thought, he came across as really passionate about his job and also seemed really clued up about the whole area and he was quite interested when I was telling him that I was intending on load balancing the two connections to gain more throughput rather than shunning it off like I'd expect some people would do and ask why the hell you are going to that extreme when you already have a line in place!

Your explanation does clarify the situation a lot clearer, he definitely referenced it being a buried joint and that it needed investigating.  Thats when however he seemed to say it could be a bit of a game changer for my situation as it is down to Openreach for originally doing a buried joint in the first place.  He said that if at some point in the future they decided to to FTTP on the street then this work would need doing anyway.  So if another pair is available, when you say "pushed" is that using special tools or could the case be that the path needs digging up along to the JB23 outside my premises?

He did also mention he recalled the figure is around 1000 as well.

Once again cheers for responding Black Sheep, your responses are most helpful and its nice that people can take the time to provide input into these situations.

I shall keep you informed of progress, he said that the surveys are usually done fairly quickly.

Adam
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burakkucat

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Re: Advice on getting a 2nd FTTC Line Fitted
« Reply #28 on: February 27, 2018, 08:32:02 PM »

Thank you, B*Sheep, for your interpretation and explanation. It was most useful and interesting to read.  :)
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Black Sheep

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Re: Advice on getting a 2nd FTTC Line Fitted
« Reply #29 on: February 27, 2018, 08:35:36 PM »

Most welcome, sir.  :)
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