Kitz ADSL Broadband Information
adsl spacer  
Support this site
Home Broadband ISPs Tech Routers Wiki Forum
 
     
   Compare ISP   Rate your ISP
   Glossary   Glossary
 
Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

Author Topic: FTTC SES and UAS error issues  (Read 2825 times)

Computerman142

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 24
FTTC SES and UAS error issues
« on: March 31, 2018, 09:22:29 AM »

Hi

New to Kitz forum, however have been a reader for a while but only just signed up now (no idea why it took so long). I am also on Thinkbroadband forums too if you do see my username.

Just a quick quick query, unfortunately my line is suffering a bit from I assume some sort of horrendous noise but cannot be certain, as I keep getting these patterns of a lot of CRC, ES, SES and UAS errors all at once it is really odd. It started mostly likely last year November time but wasn't aware that these errors were occurring at that time just speed caps to 18000 and 19999 constantly, as I wasn't using my HG612 then. I then had to make sure the line stayed at 18000 on downstream to avoid the issue with intermittent load of CRC, ES, SES and UAS errors. all was ok for a couple of weeks, then it came back and I had to lower the line speed again to 17000 and it still effecting the line even at that rate. it seems to happen more in the night than in the day, but the other evening was pretty bad. Generally overall i feel my line is getting gradually worse, about year ago got highest INP and delay applied then went down hill from there and now even upstream has INP applied which happened the other week. I am about 1000m from the fibre cab (annoying as there is one 200m away from me) and its a horrible ECI cab I am connected to, hence no G.INP when you see the stats. Wish Openreach would sort that out.

Any one have any idea on the stats below, to me doesn't look good. I really don't want to get an engineer round as the line doesn't loose sync very much so don't think there is a line fault as such so engineer will most likely charge me. Its also intermittent so may not happen when they around. I have spoken to a neighbour who I am good friends with to see if what there fibre is like and their sync is around 14000 downstream so he has similar issues. probably wont be long before DLM caps the speed at 16000 which is nearly have of the max attainable.


BusyBox v1.9.1 (2014-01-21 16:44:38 CST) built-in shell (ash)
Enter 'help' for a list of built-in commands.

# xdslcmd info --stats
xdslcmd: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: Showtime
Retrain Reason: 1
Last initialization procedure status:   0
Max:    Upstream rate = 5321 Kbps, Downstream rate = 30112 Kbps
Bearer: 0, Upstream rate = 5290 Kbps, Downstream rate = 17000 Kbps

Link Power State:       L0
Mode:                   VDSL2 Annex B
VDSL2 Profile:          Profile 17a
TPS-TC:                 PTM Mode(0x0)
Trellis:                U:ON /D:ON
Line Status:            No Defect
Training Status:        Showtime
                Down            Up
SNR (dB):        11.9            6.1
Attn(dB):        24.6            0.0
Pwr(dBm):        6.0             6.0
                        VDSL2 framing
                        Bearer 0
MSGc:           42              33
B:              47              79
M:              1               1
T:              41              45
R:              16              16
S:              0.0896          0.4803
L:              5712            1599
D:              723             67
I:              64              96
N:              64              96
                        Counters
                        Bearer 0
OHF:            25484360                420661
OHFErr:         10047           2
RS:             1974141624              2016697
RSCorr:         2877689         8586
RSUnCorr:       316036          0

                        Bearer 0
HEC:            67227           0
OCD:            5509            0
LCD:            5509            0
Total Cells:    307318173               0
Data Cells:     272609766               0
Drop Cells:     0
Bit Errors:     0               0

ES:             290             690
SES:            139             0
UAS:            252             162
AS:             141009

                        Bearer 0
INP:            8.00            2.50
INPRein:        0.00            0.00
delay:          16              8
PER:            5.53            16.27
OR:             69.38           19.17
AgR:            17069.32        5309.26

Bitswap:        98118/98156             214/218

Total time = 1 days 22 hours 10 min 49 sec
FEC:            20638214                132564
CRC:            23868           854
ES:             290             690
SES:            139             0
UAS:            252             162
LOS:            1               0
LOF:            8               0
LOM:            0               0
Latest 15 minutes time = 10 min 49 sec
FEC:            1434            0
CRC:            0               0
ES:             0               0
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Previous 15 minutes time = 15 min 0 sec
FEC:            7895            1
CRC:            0               0
ES:             0               0
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Latest 1 day time = 22 hours 10 min 49 sec
FEC:            969995          3443
CRC:            2871            2
ES:             21              2
SES:            16              0
UAS:            16              0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Previous 1 day time = 24 hours 0 sec
FEC:            3404081         6470
CRC:            13017           1
ES:             103             1
SES:            78              0
UAS:            71              32
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Since Link time = 1 days 15 hours 10 min 35 sec
FEC:            2877689         8586
CRC:            10047           2
ES:             84              2
SES:            61              0
UAS:            27              0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
#


I have HG612 modem stats from Ronski, so can run snapshot stats if any one wants to see further stats? Also I am on TalkTalk fibre 40/10 so no quiet line test which is also annoying.

Anyway sorry for long ramble.

Thanks
Logged

Ixel

  • Kitizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 1282
Re: FTTC SES and UAS error issues
« Reply #1 on: March 31, 2018, 09:46:02 AM »

That looks terrible.

It might be worth posting your Hlog and QLN. I haven't read the entire post but have you contacted the ISP and had them run a line test anyway? If a line test shows a fault then the engineer shouldn't be able to charge you for the callout even if it's intermittent, as long as it's not within the boundary of your property I believe.
Logged

kitz

  • Administrator
  • Senior Kitizen
  • *
  • Posts: 33881
  • Trinity: Most guys do.
    • http://www.kitz.co.uk
Re: FTTC SES and UAS error issues
« Reply #2 on: March 31, 2018, 11:08:57 AM »

Its a bit hard to tell from the line stats alone, but based on the fact that you have 15 min periods with 0 CRC & 0 Err Secs and your total CRC to Err Sec's ratio look like it may be shortish bursts of REIN or SHINE.

Can you run graphs for SNRM, CRC (DS_OHF) & Err Secs for the past 7 days to see if there's an emerging pattern.
Can you also check what the BT dslchecker estimates for your line, as I want to see if its still within acceptable parameters.
Logged
Please do not PM me with queries for broadband help as I may not be able to respond.
-----
How to get your router line stats :: ADSL Exchange Checker

Computerman142

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 24
Re: FTTC SES and UAS error issues
« Reply #3 on: March 31, 2018, 01:41:26 PM »

I have attached some graphs, unfortunately its not that easy to do 7 day as I don't really want to run the computer 24/7 so I have attached some graphs that the computer has got in the evening and some just now after I had to reboot the hg612. No I haven't spoken to TalkTalk yet. I had previously in the past but I got annoyed and stressed with there customer support so rather not go down that route unless I really have to. Below are the estimates for my line for BTW checker

BT BROADBAND AVAILABILITY CHECKER
Address XXX on Exchange SELBY is served by Cabinet 6
Featured Products

Downstream Line Rate(Mbps)

Upstream Line Rate(Mbps)

Downstream Handback Threshold(Mbps)

WBC FTTC Availability Date

WBC SOGEA Availability Date

High   Low   High   Low         
VDSL Range A (Clean)   33.4   20.2   7.2   4.9   18   Available   Available   
VDSL Range B (Impacted)   25   12.7   6.6   2.9   10   Available   Available   
Featured Products

Downstream Line Rate(Mbps)

Upstream Line Rate(Mbps)

Downstream Range(Mbps)

WBC FTTP Availability Date


FTTP on Demand   330   30   --   Available   --   
ADSL Products

Downstream Line Rate(Mbps)

Upstream Line Rate(Mbps)

Downstream Range(Mbps)

Availability Date


WBC ADSL 2+   Up to 4   --   2.5 to 6.5   Available   --   
WBC ADSL 2+ Annex M   Up to 4   Up to 0.5   2.5 to 6.5   Available   --   
ADSL Max   Up to 3   --   2 to 6   Available   --   
WBC Fixed Rate   1   --   --   Available   --   
Fixed Rate   1   --   --   Available   --   
Other Offerings




Availability Date


VDSL Multicast   --   --   --   Available   --   
ADSL Multicast   --   --   --   Available   --   


New stats just now since reboot not much to see but just thought id include them
# xdslcmd info --stats
xdslcmd: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: Showtime
Retrain Reason: 0
Last initialization procedure status:   0
Max:    Upstream rate = 5323 Kbps, Downstream rate = 29588 Kbps
Bearer: 0, Upstream rate = 5331 Kbps, Downstream rate = 18000 Kbps

Link Power State:       L0
Mode:                   VDSL2 Annex B
VDSL2 Profile:          Profile 17a
TPS-TC:                 PTM Mode(0x0)
Trellis:                U:ON /D:ON
Line Status:            No Defect
Training Status:        Showtime
                Down            Up
SNR (dB):        10.8            6.1
Attn(dB):        24.6            0.0
Pwr(dBm):        6.1             6.1
                        VDSL2 framing
                        Bearer 0
MSGc:           42              33
B:              47              80
M:              1               1
T:              41              45
R:              16              16
S:              0.0847          0.4826
L:              6048            1608
D:              765             67
I:              64              97
N:              64              97
                        Counters
                        Bearer 0
OHF:            112305          36056
OHFErr:         0               0
RS:             27580758                571663
RSCorr:         2849            10
RSUnCorr:       0               0

                        Bearer 0
HEC:            0               0
OCD:            0               0
LCD:            0               0
Total Cells:    20274808                0
Data Cells:     16378           0
Drop Cells:     0
Bit Errors:     0               0

ES:             0               0
SES:            0               0
UAS:            22              22
AS:             588

                        Bearer 0
INP:            8.00            2.50
INPRein:        0.00            0.00
delay:          16              8
PER:            5.22            16.35
OR:             73.46           19.08
AgR:            18073.40        5350.15

Bitswap:        321/321         2/2

Total time = 10 min 10 sec
FEC:            2849            10
CRC:            0               0
ES:             0               0
SES:            0               0
UAS:            22              22
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Latest 15 minutes time = 10 min 10 sec
FEC:            2849            10
CRC:            0               0
ES:             0               0
SES:            0               0
UAS:            22              22
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Previous 15 minutes time = 0 sec
FEC:            0               0
CRC:            0               0
ES:             0               0
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Latest 1 day time = 10 min 10 sec
FEC:            2849            10
CRC:            0               0
ES:             0               0
SES:            0               0
UAS:            22              22
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Previous 1 day time = 0 sec
FEC:            0               0
CRC:            0               0
ES:             0               0
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Since Link time = 9 min 47 sec
FEC:            2849            10
CRC:            0               0
ES:             0               0
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
#

Logged

Computerman142

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 24
Re: FTTC SES and UAS error issues
« Reply #4 on: March 31, 2018, 01:43:48 PM »

graphs attached, wouldn't let me on last post even though it was under 900kb
Logged

Computerman142

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 24
Re: FTTC SES and UAS error issues
« Reply #5 on: March 31, 2018, 01:45:05 PM »

and some more graphs, sorry its not letting me add a zip file
Logged

kitz

  • Administrator
  • Senior Kitizen
  • *
  • Posts: 33881
  • Trinity: Most guys do.
    • http://www.kitz.co.uk
Re: FTTC SES and UAS error issues
« Reply #6 on: April 02, 2018, 12:48:54 PM »

Quote
VDSL Range A (Clean)   33.4   20.2   7.2   4.9

versus

Quote
Max:    Upstream rate = 5323 Kbps, Downstream rate = 29588 Kbps
Bearer: 0, Upstream rate = 5331 Kbps, Downstream rate = 18000 Kbps

Means that you may be able to get your ISP to do something as the line is under performing the estimates.

The hlogs look fine, which indicate that the physical line is good.
QLN shows signs of what looks like a fair bit of crosstalk, which unfortunately you cant do too much about.
Both SNR Tone and QLN show the line is a bit noisy.

Quote
Can you run graphs for SNRM, CRC (DS_OHF) & Err Secs for the past 7 days to see if there's an emerging pattern.

The graphs I was after was from the "Run GraphPD" button in HG612 GUI.   When you click that button enter "7d".

You can then either view then via Stats Tab > Graphs Tab > Ongoing graphs > View Graphs   OR
If you click the Browse button it will open the ongoing_stats folder and right at the bottom you should see the 7 days you have just run.   The FULLMONTY graphs should only be about 120KB and within upload limits :)

The SNRM one that I'm wanting to see will look like this, but will be included in the FULLMONTY graphs if that's easier for you to upload.
Logged
Please do not PM me with queries for broadband help as I may not be able to respond.
-----
How to get your router line stats :: ADSL Exchange Checker

Computerman142

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 24
Re: FTTC SES and UAS error issues
« Reply #7 on: April 02, 2018, 04:50:59 PM »

Thanks Kitz for that very helpful.

I doubt Talktalk would do anything though to be honest, I've been through ti before but got nowhere so trying to think of things i could do to improve it a bit at least. All that I can predict that will happen is they will send me countless amount of routers, which are all rubbish anyway, and engineer will come round and say the line looks ok to me and charge me. Having no G.INP and vectoring available will make it harder for the speeds to get much higher I guess. Sorry if that sounds like I am contradicting myself in asking for advice, but TalkTalk are useless, they even laugh at you on the phone.

Feel sorry for my neighbor and others nears me, his estimates are nearly half of mine some even less than below.

BT BROADBAND AVAILABILITY CHECKER
Address xxxxx on Exchange SELBY is served by Cabinet 6
Featured Products

Downstream Line Rate(Mbps)

Upstream Line Rate(Mbps)

Downstream Handback Threshold(Mbps)

WBC FTTC Availability Date

WBC SOGEA Availability Date

High   Low   High   Low         
VDSL Range A (Clean)   17.8   10   1.2   0.8   7.9   Available   Available   
VDSL Range B (Impacted)   13.5   5.4   1.2   0.5   3.4   Available   Available   
Featured Products

Downstream Line Rate(Mbps)

Upstream Line Rate(Mbps)

Downstream Range(Mbps)

WBC FTTP Availability Date


FTTP on Demand   330   30   --   Available   --   
ADSL Products

Downstream Line Rate(Mbps)

Upstream Line Rate(Mbps)

Downstream Range(Mbps)

Availability Date


WBC ADSL 2+   Up to 3   --   2.5 to 6.5   Available   --   
WBC ADSL 2+ Annex M   Up to 3   Up to 0.5   2.5 to 6.5   Available   --   
ADSL Max   Up to 3   --   2 to 5.5   Available   --   

To be honest we could do with a few more FTTC with PCP cabs here they are very spaced out and cross over each other areas of which premises they serve. Are Openreach and councils meant to be looking at a minimum of 25mbps for FTTC or Superfast? If so they should do something round here most served by cabinet 6 are either 1km away or more or within 300m of the cab. Think an infill cab should be fitted near me to fix slowness issues and poor estimates for those 1km away or more but doubt that will ever happen. Then again there was BT engineer my neighbor spoke to the other day and he said they are improving the broadband speed, but think that was a generic response. I also wonder if Openreach or Ofcom would consider doing anything to make prices cheaper for those on ECI cabinets due to the lack of enhancements and most likely speed reductions, probably wouldn't be that easy to implement maybe.

Strangely enough those bursts of CRC, ES, SES and UAS errors did not occur last night, then again they don't always occur each night, must be something someone is switching on somewhere but as its in right in middle of the night it must out side the house somewhere. Yeah I assumed the line was good, just noise as you say but wasn't sure for definite, trying to think of ideas of how I could reduce it a bit.

As for the graphs I will have wait 7 days as i had to electrical work yesterday so had the power off, and I will repost those then.

Thanks again sorry for the ramble.
Logged

kitz

  • Administrator
  • Senior Kitizen
  • *
  • Posts: 33881
  • Trinity: Most guys do.
    • http://www.kitz.co.uk
Re: FTTC SES and UAS error issues
« Reply #8 on: April 02, 2018, 05:56:06 PM »

Quote
As for the graphs I will have wait 7 days as i had to electrical work yesterday so had the power off, and I will repost those then.

No worries.

Quote
Strangely enough those bursts of CRC, ES, SES and UAS errors did not occur last night, then again they don't always occur each night, must be something someone is switching on somewhere but as its in right in middle of the night it must out side the house somewhere.

Is it a single burst, or a burst which lasts a period of time? 

Logged
Please do not PM me with queries for broadband help as I may not be able to respond.
-----
How to get your router line stats :: ADSL Exchange Checker

Computerman142

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 24
Re: FTTC SES and UAS error issues
« Reply #9 on: April 03, 2018, 08:03:24 AM »

To be honest i'm not entirely sure, but based on how many errors occurs I assume its just a short burst, so around 10-30 seconds then goes. Then again I always don't seem to notice it until next day or I've gone out somewhere then come back and quickly check stats to see that it has happened. Again nothing happened last night, hopefully it will stay like that but I thought that before and then it came back.
Logged

kitz

  • Administrator
  • Senior Kitizen
  • *
  • Posts: 33881
  • Trinity: Most guys do.
    • http://www.kitz.co.uk
Re: FTTC SES and UAS error issues
« Reply #10 on: April 03, 2018, 09:41:01 AM »

The telnet stats seemed to indicate that they were fairly short bursts which is why trying to capture the length of those burst may be useful.   
I was looking at your stats and seeing 0's in most of the latest 15 min periods, but the telnet stats don't paint the picture for a longer period of time.  I was also wondering if you may perhaps be seeing something similar to what I do.   There's a few of us that get daily bursts always within certain time frames.  I don't know what causes it, but I have to watch mine, because if I don't catch it in time DLM will take action.   It's a bit annoying because for most of the day the line is perfectly fine, then I will get a burst lasting just a couple of seconds which will usually go, but sometimes it sticks until I reboot my router.
Logged
Please do not PM me with queries for broadband help as I may not be able to respond.
-----
How to get your router line stats :: ADSL Exchange Checker

Computerman142

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 24
Re: FTTC SES and UAS error issues
« Reply #11 on: April 10, 2018, 09:53:05 PM »

Hi Kitz

I have attached the 7 day graph, noticed tonight I got one SES error, and 17300 odd fec errors with line pretty much idleing in one 15 minute section, so noise may be back but not as bad. Let me know what you think? I ll keep monitoring for now in case it comes back tonight. If it doesn't and was just a one off SES error, I think I know what was causing it, but we will see first before coming to that.
Logged