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Author Topic: Cabinets in a post-FTTP world  (Read 1668 times)

Bowdon

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Cabinets in a post-FTTP world
« on: February 06, 2018, 07:05:31 PM »

From my understanding (I could be wrong!), if adsl/vdsl technologies were removed, would cabinets be needed if we only used FTTP?
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j0hn

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Re: Cabinets in a post-FTTP world
« Reply #1 on: February 06, 2018, 08:11:44 PM »

Only needed if they intend on keeping the copper lines for voice, or LLU providers making things awkward so they can sweat their assets.

FTTP is very capable of doing both broadband and voice. When we eventually get to that stage (we will 1 day) the PCPs will all be scrapped.
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sevenlayermuddle

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Re: Cabinets in a post-FTTP world
« Reply #2 on: February 10, 2018, 12:26:35 AM »

Iíd been hoping to see more comments on this one, as I find it interesting.

To my way of thinking, it would seem unlikely that each and every subscriberís FTTP glass cable would be individually terminated at the exchange.   Surely the number of terminations would simply be enormous and unmanageable?

Iíd therefore have assumed that even with FTTP, some multiplexing and demultiplexing would still take place at points between exchange and subscriber.   And Iíd have expected that mux/demux to happen in local cabinets... :-\
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gt94sss2

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Re: Cabinets in a post-FTTP world
« Reply #3 on: February 10, 2018, 12:39:06 AM »

Openreach are deploying a FTTP network using a GPON architecture not a point to point one. it doesn't use cabinets with most of the kit being underground
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j0hn

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Re: Cabinets in a post-FTTP world
« Reply #4 on: February 10, 2018, 01:51:41 AM »

The FTTP kit (splitters/aggregation nodes/distribution points) are for the most part in underground chambers. What isn't underground (some splitters/distribution points) are on telegraph poles.

I've never seen OpenReach deploy any FTTP equipment in a cabinet. There might be the odd exception to that.

The amount of space needed to terminate the fibre at the parent/head-end exchange is tiny in comparison to the amount of equipment need for copper (MDF/DSLAMs/MSANs/TAM/etc/etc). The MDF alone at my local exchange (ESDAL) is HUGE.
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Black Sheep

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Re: Cabinets in a post-FTTP world
« Reply #5 on: February 10, 2018, 10:04:54 AM »

j0hn's nailed it ^^^^.

I too have never seen any FTTP product in an above ground Cabinet (as we know them). As far as large MDF's go, I've visited a helluva lot of Exchanges over the years ... and the biggest by far has to be .... da daaaar ...... Wigan's.

It is spread across TWO buildings .... Dawber St and MacGregor House ..... it's a few minutes walk between the two premises as well !!

Carlisle's is quite large, and Barrow's too. The smallest I've worked in (and at the time it was the smallest in the UK), was Buttermere. Couldn't get more than two people in that UAX, and the MDF had approx. 30 subscribers .... most of which were for the hotel down the road.

Ah, memories.  :)
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sevenlayermuddle

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Re: Cabinets in a post-FTTP world
« Reply #6 on: February 10, 2018, 10:34:06 AM »

Thanks guys, Iím not challenging anything thatís been said, just curious to understand.

So what happens then, if a property developer comes along and builds another house, on the edge of an existing development served by FTTP?   An option would obviously be to draw a single new fibre through all the ducts, all the way to the exchange.  But Iíd have expected a cheaper and easier option to be available, and itís hard to amagine anything simpler than the old cabinets.

After all, pre-broadband, POTS, it could have been argued there was no technical need for cabinets as there was continuous copper all the way from subscriber to exchange.   But for practical reasons, cabinets were of course used.

Iím not the only one confused by this.   Found a 2017 parliamentary briefing paper no less (quite short) that spells it all out.   Figure 2, page 5, illustrates the all-copper vs FTTC vs FTTP options and in each case, there is a sreet cabinet shown.   But in the descriptive text, it seems to contradict the diagram...  ???

http://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/POST-PB-0024/POST-PB-0024.pdf

Quote
Another option for fibre optic deployment involves running fibre optic cables from the exchange to the premises, without needing to go via a cabinet.
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licquorice

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Re: Cabinets in a post-FTTP world
« Reply #7 on: February 10, 2018, 10:53:04 AM »

Just think of it in the same way as a copper distribution network but instead of individual copper pairs being combined into ever increasing cable size the individual fibres from a premises are aggregated and split optically at various nodes. The combiner/ splitters are either pole mounted or in underground joint boxes rather than in cabinets.

Have a look at http://www.gpon.com/how-gpon-works
« Last Edit: February 10, 2018, 11:00:16 AM by licquorice »
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Ronski

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Re: Cabinets in a post-FTTP world
« Reply #8 on: February 10, 2018, 10:54:06 AM »

The fibre would only have come from the nearest aggregation node, manifold, splitter etc,  not from exchange.

The signals are combined, so don't need single fibres all the way back to the exchange for each customer connection.
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renluop

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Re: Cabinets in a post-FTTP world
« Reply #9 on: February 10, 2018, 10:56:51 AM »

Silly question?  :-\ What would the method to extend FTTP, where connection to xDSL is D.I.G, so no overhead facility, or underground duct available to use?
« Last Edit: February 10, 2018, 10:59:08 AM by renluop »
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j0hn

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Re: Cabinets in a post-FTTP world
« Reply #10 on: February 10, 2018, 01:10:23 PM »

They would need to install ducting. In rural areas they have been known to direct bury armoured fibre but try not to use this as much as possible.
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renluop

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Re: Cabinets in a post-FTTP world
« Reply #11 on: February 10, 2018, 02:42:16 PM »

I guessed that may be the case, and quite disruptive in such areas, as they would've long matured with extensions etc.
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Ignitionnet

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Re: Cabinets in a post-FTTP world
« Reply #12 on: February 11, 2018, 12:32:10 AM »

Getting shot of the small colony of cabinets here would be wonderful.

Sadly needs Ofcom to grow a set of either testicles or breasticles and tell TalkTalk and Sky their LLU MSANs are obsolete.

Blimey telling TalkTalk that would send them under for sure if they haven't already breached their loan covenants by then.
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Bowdon

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Re: Cabinets in a post-FTTP world
« Reply #13 on: February 11, 2018, 03:57:03 PM »

This thread sure grew from last time I looked lol

I'll have to come back to the gpon web link again as it seems a bit complicated for me at the moment.

But reading the thread, am I right in thinking that to replace cabinets there would be a node based network underground of fibre that splits off to individual properties?

An old question before I make my last IF question. Does the old copper line go from the home to the cabinet then to the exchange?

IF the copper line does that, then will we see the end to the phrase "my line..." ? as if its a node fibre network effectively "my line" would only be from my home until it meets the fibre network, then everything else is down to the fibre network traffic?
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licquorice

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Re: Cabinets in a post-FTTP world
« Reply #14 on: February 11, 2018, 04:07:40 PM »

Your copper line goes all the way to the exchange, it never becomes fibre as an individual line and never will. It will either stay copper or become voip over the fibre to your house.
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