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Author Topic: Recommended replacement for Draytek 2860 router  (Read 5232 times)

radiodan

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Recommended replacement for Draytek 2860 router
« on: March 04, 2018, 10:40:45 PM »

Evening all,

Having finally lost all faith in Draytek I have decided to seek a replacement.

I run a fairly large home and small office network, with about 40 devices inc 8 IP phones, a bunch of IP cameras, IoT, network with RADIUS authentication, guest network, multiple AP's etc.  2 ISP's come into the building - a slow ADSL service and a faster WISP service.  the 2850 load-balances between them both, with critical services such as VoIP always set to run over the ADSL.

Draytek were once a rock solid brand.  However I have had no end of trouble with the 2860 over the last few months with constant crashes and reboots.  I'l also sick to death of having to reboot the device on the slightest changes in config.  Having just had the thing get itself into a reboot loop this afternoon for an hour, bringing the whole network down, I have lost patience.   

Good QoS functionality and reporting is essential, as is an in-built RADIUS server and VLANs.  I have a spare modem for the ADSL service, so it is not important to have one built in.

A number if years back when I was looking after IT for a small voluntary organisation,  I built and configured a powerful pfsense box with multiple ISP connections, LANs VPN's etc.  The functionality and stability were awesome!  However, whilst I would love to do the same here, I just don't have the time at the moment and simply need an off-the-shelf solution that works! (and most critically is stable)

Cost is not an issue (within reason).

Suggestions?   

Thanks,

Dan
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burakkucat

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Re: Recommended replacement for Draytek 2860 router
« Reply #1 on: March 04, 2018, 10:45:31 PM »

Hmm . . .

I'll toss one manufacturer's name into the ring: Ubiquiti

Let's see what others suggest.
« Last Edit: March 04, 2018, 10:47:45 PM by burakkucat »
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highpriest

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Re: Recommended replacement for Draytek 2860 router
« Reply #2 on: March 04, 2018, 10:56:53 PM »

I'll toss one manufacturer's name into the ring: Ubiquiti

+1

Another vote for Ubiquiti. I use the EdgeRouter as a router and firewall and their UniFi access points for wireless networking at home. Rock solid, quality kit for a very reasonable price.
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Zen | Zyxel VMG8324-B10A (with RFC4638 patch) | EdgeRouter PoE | UniFi AP AC Pro + Lite

radiodan

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Re: Recommended replacement for Draytek 2860 router
« Reply #3 on: March 04, 2018, 11:13:51 PM »

Thanks for the reply(s).

Yes, I have 4 UAP-AC-Pro AP's + a cloud key taking care of the wireless side of things here.  Agree - superb kit.  However, i am less than impressed with the USG (I actually have one here on the test bench to evaluate for a small commercial job).  What are the EdgeRouter's like?  Do you have to re-boot them on the slightest configuration change?  Can you fine-tune QoS and setup routing table for different devices etc?

Thanks.
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burakkucat

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Re: Recommended replacement for Draytek 2860 router
« Reply #4 on: March 04, 2018, 11:49:43 PM »

I don't have any experience of Ubiquiti kit but I've heard good reports thereof. I've given one of my colleagues a ping and asked if he could provide some details, based on his experiences.

Another couple of names are MikroTik and Watchfront for their Firebrick products. 
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LinuxPhil

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Re: Recommended replacement for Draytek 2860 router
« Reply #5 on: March 05, 2018, 07:45:35 AM »

I have an EdgeRouter Lite 3 and am very impressed. It's rock solid stable, and I have never needed to reboot it since the initial setup. I mostly only play with the firewall rules, changes are saved and implemented on the fly. My main reason for purchase is I wanted a fully configurable Linux/iptables based firewall unit to sit between my domestic router and home network.

The things that would concern me based on your requirements are:

1. You ask for an off-the-shelf solution. The EdgeRouter isn't exactly plug'n'play and takes a fair bit of effort and understanding to configure, but once it's done it is an extremely reliable device. That said it's no harder than the pfsense box you configured.

2. I don't believe the EdgeRouter Lite has an in-built RADIUS server by default, but google seems to suggest you can install FreeRadius packages from debian on it. However, I'm guessing setting up a RADIUS server elsewhere on your network may be preferential rather than trying to cram it onto an EdgeRouter Lite.

3. I've only played very briefly with the QoS. The SmartQueue setting is an excellent set and forget implementation that just works (See it in action on youtube). There are also basic and advanced modes for those who want more specific control, but I'd recommend at least trying the SmartQueue setting first to see if it works in your environment.

One of the best things about the EdgeRouter for me is the excellent community support, not to mention the ongoing support from Ubiquiti who are still releasing new firmware with new features years after the initial product release rather than releasing a new model each year and writing off your old but perfectly functional hardware. If I had to replace it I would have no hesitation in buying another unit, or maybe an EdgeRouter 4.

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highpriest

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Re: Recommended replacement for Draytek 2860 router
« Reply #6 on: March 07, 2018, 05:47:58 PM »

Do you have to re-boot them on the slightest configuration change?

I've only ever rebooted mine after installing firmware updates. Everything else is done on the fly.

Quote
Can you fine-tune QoS and setup routing table for different devices etc?

Don't use QoS so no idea, sorry.
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Ixel

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Re: Recommended replacement for Draytek 2860 router
« Reply #7 on: March 08, 2018, 08:46:52 PM »

I would also recommend Ubiquiti if you want a decent router. I have the EdgeRouter Pro 8, overkill perhaps but doesn't struggle at all and is ready for faster internet connections in the future for some time to come I imagine. I even have mine running a custom script (I developed) which automatically adjusts the smart queue QoS downstream speed and upstream speed configuration based on the line rate from the API that AAISP allow customers to use (to fetch the current line rate, should it change on a resync).
« Last Edit: March 08, 2018, 08:52:07 PM by Ixel »
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johnson

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Re: Recommended replacement for Draytek 2860 router
« Reply #8 on: March 09, 2018, 06:54:07 AM »

I even have mine running a custom script (I developed) which automatically adjusts the smart queue QoS downstream speed and upstream speed configuration based on the line rate from the API that AAISP allow customers to use (to fetch the current line rate, should it change on a resync).

Cool stuff. Can I ask what sort of percentage values your script chooses to get reliable performance from the smart queue management. With LEDE/OpenWRT I seem to need to use values as low as 85% of actual line rate (after taking off 8% for retransmission high on the DS and 3% for low on the US) which results in a pretty sizeable hit to overall throughput. What sort of values work well for your setup? I'm wondering if the edgerouters ample resources or maybe ubiquitis specific implementation of SQM give better results.

I'l add that I can get decent scores from the DSLreports bufferbloat test with far less conservative values, but then certain things that seem able to saturate the link even more (windows updates are a good example) still result massive latency and even total packet loss.
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Ixel

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Re: Recommended replacement for Draytek 2860 router
« Reply #9 on: March 09, 2018, 08:45:02 AM »

Cool stuff. Can I ask what sort of percentage values your script chooses to get reliable performance from the smart queue management. With LEDE/OpenWRT I seem to need to use values as low as 85% of actual line rate (after taking off 8% for retransmission high on the DS and 3% for low on the US) which results in a pretty sizeable hit to overall throughput. What sort of values work well for your setup? I'm wondering if the edgerouters ample resources or maybe ubiquitis specific implementation of SQM give better results.

I'l add that I can get decent scores from the DSLreports bufferbloat test with far less conservative values, but then certain things that seem able to saturate the link even more (windows updates are a good example) still result massive latency and even total packet loss.

Currently I have mine setup to do the following:
- 97% of the downstream rate after AAISP/TTB deduction (which is something like 98% of downstream sync rate for TTB and then I have a setting on the AAISP control panel set to '95% (VoIP)')
- 97% of the actual upstream sync rate

Seems to work well for me.
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johnson

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Re: Recommended replacement for Draytek 2860 router
« Reply #10 on: March 09, 2018, 09:07:45 AM »

Wow, that is significantly better. Guess I need to go and read about Ubiquitis smart queue implementation, I dont even know if it uses cake or just plain fq_codel.

Do you have G.INP enabled Ixel? If so do you know if you are retx high or low?
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Ixel

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Re: Recommended replacement for Draytek 2860 router
« Reply #11 on: March 09, 2018, 10:54:37 AM »

Wow, that is significantly better. Guess I need to go and read about Ubiquitis smart queue implementation, I dont even know if it uses cake or just plain fq_codel.

Do you have G.INP enabled Ixel? If so do you know if you are retx high or low?

Unfortunately I don't have G.INP, maybe one day I'll see it again. I'm on the currently inferior ECI (version 0xd086).
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