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Author Topic: Custom cables - modem (RJ11) to BT (BS6312 431A)  (Read 1964 times)

Weaver

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Custom cables - modem (RJ11) to BT (BS6312 431A)
« on: January 22, 2018, 10:24:22 AM »

I was thinking about some custom-made short DSL modem-to-BT cables. I do have one that is RJ45-RJ11 made by Vince / Mr Telephone on ebay (http://www.mymatevince.com) who seems to be taking a break at the moment. He does make up custom cables.

I thought about having short cables that go from a modem directly into a BT-type BT ‘test’ socket in the back half of the NTE5. So that would be an RJ11 plug on one end and BT plug on the other.

Does anyone have any tips for other suppliers?

Recap: For modem-to-wallsocket cables, my trusty Tandy RJ11-RJ11 cables work very well indeed and give a nice snap at the wall socket end despite the socket being RJ45 not RJ11. An RJ45 socket is what is on the front of the Andrews and Arnold ‘trivial’ straight-through BT-test-socket-to-RJ45-socket faceplates which I am using now. The tiny size-mismatch between RJ11 plug and RJ45 socket does not cause any problems. Vince's cable gives and even more reassuring thunk, having the correct size plug (RJ45). It is hardly surprising that any performance differences are within the large ‘noise’ in the data, presumably buried far down, and I have not been able to separate the two in performance terms. All I have to go on are sync rate comparisons and there was no expectation of any noticeable difference unless something was badly amiss.

I now have an NTE5C and two NTE5As. The AA trivial faceplate was designed for the NTE5A and presumably won't fit onto the NTE5C’s front (presumably there's no chance, the NTE5C being differently shaped?)
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runitdirect

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Re: Custom cables - modem (RJ11) to BT (BS6312 431A)
« Reply #1 on: January 24, 2018, 04:14:19 PM »

The RJ45 faceplate you refer to is not made by A&A, it's made by Pressac but has long been discontinued. (we looked at getting them made in the far east but with a minimum qty of 2000 units by memory the demand wasn't there, not now the new NTE5C is available anyway). Anyway, if you have no need for a phone service then as you say you can plug directly into the BT socket. These leads do exactly that....

https://www.run-it-direct.co.uk/adsl-vdsl-patch-leads/adslvdslbtcat5patchlead025m/

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burakkucat

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Re: Custom cables - modem (RJ11) to BT (BS6312 431A)
« Reply #2 on: January 24, 2018, 05:23:38 PM »

These leads do exactly that....

https://www.run-it-direct.co.uk/adsl-vdsl-patch-leads/adslvdslbtcat5patchlead025m/

I note that the description, for your above product, begins --

Quote from: run-IT-direct
High quality BT 431A to RJ11 patch lead, suitable for patching modems & routers DIRECTLY to UNFILTERED* BT sockets. Made from pure copper white CAT5e cable. This lead is intended for high bit rate digital services (vDSL FTTC) such as BT Infinity, it is also suitable for ADSL & offers excellent noise rejection. 0.25m length. Both plugs have gold plated connectors.

I hope the "pure copper white CAT5e cable" has stranded and not solid conductors. Too many entities, nowadays, are misusing solid conductor cables, designed for structured wiring, as the basis for patch cables.
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Weaver

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Re: Custom cables - modem (RJ11) to BT (BS6312 431A)
« Reply #3 on: January 24, 2018, 11:31:33 PM »

No I didn't mean it was _made_ by AA, it's just that they sold it to me and some might possibly even have had their logo put on them but I can't remember now. They used to have them in their tiny shop.

Thanks to runitdirect for that link, very useful, and thanks for being a brilliant shop generally too. And they are super short too! which is absolutely brilliant. people don't think about this need 0.25m even, excellent.

Mrs Weaver complained bitterly about the ugliness of the NTE5 with its front taken off and went on a rant about how it would "get dust in it" and go wrong and woe would erm befall or something.

So Mrs Weaver wants a new straight-through front plate that is NTE5C-friendly ? Is that with a totally different layout, I'm trying to find pics of the inside of old and new models, I think the test socket is in a very different position now? And someone pointed out that it's close to the top protruding overhang part so could foul certain kinds of plugs.

Mrs Weaver tried a BT-plug-rj11-socket converter thing that came from ?ebay (did someone give me a link earlier?) and plugged it into the test socket for me. She said it was very wobbly, not a good fit into the BT socket, her words were that it was as if it wasn't quite big enough for the BT hole it was going into to be a snug fit. Perhaps the side-hook wasn't catching, I wasn't there unfortunately, I was still in my bed. And then complained like crazy about the appearance of an NTE5C with the front off.

« Last Edit: January 24, 2018, 11:49:58 PM by Weaver »
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Weaver

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Re: Custom cables - modem (RJ11) to BT (BS6312 431A)
« Reply #4 on: January 24, 2018, 11:58:05 PM »

So given the domestic complaints it means I really wish for a successor to the straight-through faceplate.

Don't I just need a normal NTE5c lower front plate but with the good RJ11-to-BT cable? Wonder where the front plate went, the BT man perhaps didn't leave it, the guy who came out to fix the disaster caused by his predecessor who ran away leaving a setup that didn't work when he was merely asked to replace an NTE5a with another NTE5 after possible lightning mild cooking. No reason why he would leave it though.

That means anyway I need a normal no-dsl front to put back on to make the snarling Mrs happy again. Off to the runitdirect shop to buy the bits then.
« Last Edit: January 25, 2018, 12:38:36 AM by Weaver »
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burakkucat

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Re: Custom cables - modem (RJ11) to BT (BS6312 431A)
« Reply #5 on: January 25, 2018, 12:18:18 AM »

Ideally you would just obtain an Openreach branded NTE5/A from any one of a number of retail outlets and replace that NTE5/C monstrosity.

Unfortunately the Isle of Skye is far too far away from either Walter's Wheelbarrow garage or myself, at EABSE. The nearest kitizen that comes to mind still has a damp patch, known as the Irish Sea, to cross before he could reach you. So I think that also rules out N*Star.
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Weaver

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Re: Custom cables - modem (RJ11) to BT (BS6312 431A)
« Reply #6 on: January 25, 2018, 01:00:26 AM »

My post crossed over with Burakkucat's.

NTE5As must still be available from somewhere, but I have probably lost the AA faceplate now knowing my luck and runitdirect are showing out of stock of them - if i'm looking at the right product on their website.

I am assuming I will need to buy an entire NTE5c just to get a ‘POTS-only’ standard lower front portion?

I'm after one of those runitdirect cables then, I didn't see anything saying that the cables are multi-stranded or solid. It says CAT5e so they are twisted pair of course.

It's fantastic that they do such a short one, that particular socket is much further away from the heap of modems than the other two, for some very odd reason. The original BT man didn't position it right next door to the other two, which is a bit of a pest, I wasn't watching. So 0.25m won't stretch to that particular one, and Janet tells me that 0.5m won't stretch either so 1m itwill have to be, for that particular one. I can't easily move a modem really close to that socket without having something to park it on, such as putting up a tiny bracket or hanging it on the wall. The three master sockets and the heap of modems are both located high up on the wall but the modems are in a small home-brew rack that is below the first two master sockets and not near enough to the third, the NTE5c.
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Westie

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Re: Custom cables - modem (RJ11) to BT (BS6312 431A)
« Reply #7 on: January 25, 2018, 01:29:04 AM »

NTE5As must still be available from somewhere...

Maybe here , or here ?
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burakkucat

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Re: Custom cables - modem (RJ11) to BT (BS6312 431A)
« Reply #8 on: January 25, 2018, 01:45:14 AM »

NTE5As must still be available from somewhere, but I have probably lost the AA faceplate now knowing my luck and runitdirect are showing out of stock of them - if i'm looking at the right product on their website.

The AA shop still shows the NTE5/A faceplate as available . . .

Quote
I am assuming I will need to buy an entire NTE5c just to get a ‘POTS-only’ standard lower front portion?

Yes, unfortunately. The NTE5/C comes in two formats: (a) telephony only (b) telephony and broadband. The back part is identical for both, the front "gubbins" defines which of the two formats the integrated whole is to provide.

Quote
I'm after one of those runitdirect cables then, I didn't see anything saying that the cables are multi-stranded or solid. It says CAT5e so they are twisted pair of course.

CAT5e cable, obviously, has two constructs. Solid core wires for structured cabling and stranded core wires for patch cables. As I said earlier, numerous entities try to use solid core cable for patch cables. (Vince, Mr Telephone Supplies, is one who comes to mind.) It would be good if run-IT-direct would clarify that important point about their cables. If they have been manufactured wrongly then don't waste your money.
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Weaver

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Re: Custom cables - modem (RJ11) to BT (BS6312 431A)
« Reply #9 on: January 25, 2018, 01:53:41 AM »

Remind me of the solid core issue again? Mechanical reliability?
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burakkucat

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Re: Custom cables - modem (RJ11) to BT (BS6312 431A)
« Reply #10 on: January 25, 2018, 01:59:32 AM »

A quick look on eBay has found three sources of NTE5/As with the Openreach branding --

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/112500627963 -- £5-50
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/322546755162 -- £9-99
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/182286899625 -- £308-79 (A real bargain. I'll have five, please.)
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burakkucat

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Re: Custom cables - modem (RJ11) to BT (BS6312 431A)
« Reply #11 on: January 25, 2018, 02:07:18 AM »

Remind me of the solid core issue again? Mechanical reliability?

(1) The modular 6P2C plug (erroneously referred to as "RJ11")  and the BT 431A (or 631A) plugs are designed to crimp onto stranded core wires not solid core wires. Within a short while, the plugs will come off.

(2) A cable so made will be stiff and not flexible.
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runitdirect

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Re: Custom cables - modem (RJ11) to BT (BS6312 431A)
« Reply #12 on: January 25, 2018, 09:42:31 AM »

(1) The modular 6P2C plug (erroneously referred to as "RJ11")  and the BT 431A (or 631A) plugs are designed to crimp onto stranded core wires not solid core wires. Within a short while, the plugs will come off.

(2) A cable so made will be stiff and not flexible.

(1) The fact is these plugs are well known as "RJ series". If someone calls us up asking for 6P4C or RJ11 it means the same to us & everyone else in the industry. Also to claim plugs are not designed for solid core is incorrect. There are three versions of plugs, one for stranded cable, one for solid core & one that is suitable for BOTH.

(2) Do you have evidence to back up your claim that "plugs will come off in a short while"?! You seem very confident as you state will not may! FYI we have a product that uses a cable made from CW1308 cable. We've sold that product since 2000, literally tens of thousands of them out there. The number that have failed as you describe? Zero!

(3) NTE5A's are no longer made by Pressac. We can still get them from alternative suppliers & have them in stock. Demand is very low so whether that will remain to be true is doubtful.

(4) The RJ45 lower plate for the NTE5A was actually first sold to the public by us. We also supplied thousands of these to ISP's..........

(4) The NTE5C does have an alternative version but currently not available to us.

(5) The cables linked to above are solid core (product page updated). These were made to a customer specification by request. Why solid core? At some sites they wanted to be able to cut the plug off and terminate directly to the NTE so the cable could not be removed. Those that remember the old BT (Pressac) "NTE2000 data extension kit" will recall their "CAT5 3 pair" cable was solid core too with an RJ45 (8P8C!) plug crimped on one end. For similar reasons (coupled with the fact that the far end socket used IDC connectors that can't use stranded cable)

(6) If you really want a stranded cable (the difference over 25cm's will be ZERO!) we can certainly make it-just email us your request!
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Weaver

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Re: Custom cables - modem (RJ11) to BT (BS6312 431A)
« Reply #13 on: January 25, 2018, 03:42:22 PM »

runitdirect thanks for the clarification.

I was holding the mistaken belief that aa themselves made the hardware in question; I always assumed that they bought it in from someone else. Apart from their Watchfront joint venture in Firebrick, they don't manufacture.
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runitdirect

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Re: Custom cables - modem (RJ11) to BT (BS6312 431A)
« Reply #14 on: January 25, 2018, 03:54:51 PM »

We've made enquiries on the new NTE5C version (again). If we can get them we'll have them on the site! I'm not holding my breath though. Another alternative would be a BT431A male to RJ45 female adaptor that we have, you can then use a standard CAT5e/CAT6 patch lead.
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