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Author Topic: DLM with Banding Profile  (Read 8247 times)

adslmax

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Re: Downstream stuck at 67000000 bps
« Reply #15 on: November 28, 2017, 12:00:14 AM »

Plusnet told me there isn't any DLM caution counter on their system. Nothing is updated yet from Openreach.
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kitz

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Re: Re: Downstream stuck at 67000000 bps
« Reply #16 on: November 28, 2017, 10:39:58 AM »

Wrong thread max?   I'll move your post.
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kitz

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Re: DLM with Banding Profile
« Reply #17 on: November 28, 2017, 10:52:02 AM »

Plusnet told me there isn't any DLM caution counter on their system.

Wasn't sure if they could get that info for NGA DLM.  Was worth a shot asking though.

Quote
Nothing is updated yet from Openreach.

Max - you will know way before Plusnet do.  So not much point asking them to repeat GEA tests. :/
The first thing that will happen is your line will resync.
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adslmax

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Re: DLM with Banding Profile
« Reply #18 on: November 29, 2017, 04:29:03 PM »

Plusnet have ran GEA Test result below:

Test Outcome    Pass
Test Outcome Code    GTC_FTTC_SERVICE_0000
Description    GEA service test completed and no fault found .
Main Fault Location    OK
Sync Status    In Sync
Downstream Speed    73.9 Mbps
Upstream Speed    20.0 Mbps
Appointment Required    N
Fault Report Advised    N
NTE Power Status    PowerOn
Voice Line Test Result    Pass
Bridge Tap    Not Detected
Radio Frequency Ingress    Not Detected
Repetitive Electrical Impulse Noise    Not Detected
Cross Talk    Not Detected
Estimated Line Length In Metres    248.3
Upstream Rate Assessment    Very Good
Downstream Rate Assessment    Reasonable
Interference Pattern    Not Detected
Service Impact    No Impact Observed
Home Wiring Problem    Not Detected
Downstream Policing Discard Rate    0.0
Customer Traffic Level    Upstream and Downstream Traffic Detected
Technology    VDSL
Current 15Min Bin Retrains    0
Last 15Min Bin Retrains    0
Profile Name    0.128M-74M Downstream, Retransmission High - 0.128M-20M Upstream, Retransmission High
Time Stamp    2017-11-16T16:30:00
Parameters    MIN    MAX    AVG
Down Stream Line Rate    73.9 Mbps    74.0 Mbps    73.9 Mbps
Up Stream Line Rate    19.9 Mbps    20.0 Mbps    20.0 Mbps
Up Time    0.0 Sec    900.0 Sec    897.7 Sec
Retrains    0.0    1.0    0.0
Current and Last 15 Minute Bin Performance
Parameters    Last Traffic Count(Upto 15 mins)    Current Traffic Count(Upto 15 mins)
Start Time Stamp    2017-11-29T15:59:49Z    2017-11-29T16:14:49Z
Ingress Code Violation    1    0
Egress Code Violation    0    0
Errored Seconds    0    0
Severely Errored Seconds    0    0
Unavailable Seconds    0    0
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niemand

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Re: DLM with Banding Profile
« Reply #19 on: November 29, 2017, 04:32:51 PM »

Just as well Plusnet don't get charged per GEA test. I have no idea why they are continuing to run them for you, I guess the stories of long waits for support from them aren't true if they've nothing better to do.

Openreach are not sitting there monitoring lines and don't update providers when the DLM state changes. As kitz rightly said the first anyone will know of any changes is you when your service flaps and parameters change.
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adslmax

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Re: DLM with Banding Profile
« Reply #20 on: November 29, 2017, 04:36:00 PM »

No, I just telling PN that my line is BANDED at 74Meg but I think DLM taking it times to restored my line back to 80 Meg in due course or might never happen. I also asked them to look into DLM caution counter.
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ejs

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Re: DLM with Banding Profile
« Reply #21 on: November 29, 2017, 06:05:11 PM »

Perhaps you could try running loads and loads of speedtests, get some poor speedtest results, show Plusnet all the bad ones, and see if they will get Openreach out based on all your bad speedtest results? Or perhaps unplug and re-plug your modem lots of times, and try to get Openreach out based on all those connection drops? It's not like anyone is going to know what actually caused them. Obviously the Openreach person would find no fault, maybe you'd have to pay, but you might be able to convince them to do a DLM reset while they're there.
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adslmax

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Re: DLM with Banding Profile
« Reply #22 on: November 29, 2017, 06:21:03 PM »

After xmas, I have decided to migration my fibre over to Pulse8 from Plusnet for a change. (both line and fibre to be moving away from plusnet)
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niemand

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Re: DLM with Banding Profile
« Reply #23 on: November 29, 2017, 07:02:33 PM »

I'll give them a heads up  ;)

Just to set expectations properly they will behave no differently from Plusnet in circumstances like this. They won't raise tickets to TTB for banding unless it's outside estimate either.
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j0hn

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Re: DLM with Banding Profile
« Reply #24 on: November 30, 2017, 01:09:46 AM »

Leaving an ISP because of this is excessive in my opinion. They have absolutely no control over this.
Interleaving would taken more off your sync than the banding has. Would you leave an ISP because your line has had interleaving applied?
You keep being given advice to leave it alone, and it isn't affecting your service in any way. Why are you asking Plusnet to run another GEA test?

Having had a look at the new GEA test it gives some interesting info.
The GEA test now shows the banding. It is still old and out of date though.
Quote
Profile Name    0.128M-74M Downstream, Retransmission High - 0.128M-20M Upstream, Retransmission High
Time Stamp    2017-11-16T16:30:00
The line changed from Retransmission High Downstream/Upstream to Retransmission Low Downstream/Upstream on 22nd November.

So the last couple GEA tests have had a line profile that's 13 days old. You can see this from the Timestamp of the above profile  ran on the 29th but dated the 16th.
It was the same with the 1st GEA test
Profile Name    0.128M-80M Downstream, Retransmission Low - 0.128M-20M Upstream, Error Protection Off
Time Stamp    2017-10-29T20:30:00
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adslmax

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Re: DLM with Banding Profile
« Reply #25 on: December 01, 2017, 07:23:58 PM »

 ??? It's now has gone 19 days with DLM banding on my line. Dunno how long to wait before it will removed 74Meg banding? Getting annoying now with DLM as my line is stable enough.
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adslmax

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Re: DLM with Banding Profile
« Reply #26 on: December 02, 2017, 12:39:08 PM »

Plusnet Fault Team are lying over banded.

Quote
Dear Mr *********,

Thanks so much for your call today.

As discussed, currently your line is running without any indication of a fault and is running well within the line estimates and there is no banding on the line.
The numbers within the line speed profile name are simply taken from the DLM speeds and on fibre the DLM simply reacts to the line performance rather than dictating the speeds the line is achieving.
As there is no indication of a fault on you r line and your line speeds are running well within the line estimates of 70.6Mbps and 80Mbps there is no further action required at the moment, unless your speed is under the lower end of the estimate range.

Apologies for any inconvenience or confusion.

Quote
As requested here are the result of the GEA test I ran on your service today:

Test Outcome    Pass
Test Outcome Code    GTC_FTTC_SERVICE_0000
Description    GEA service test completed and no fault found .
Main Fault Location    OK
Sync Status    In Sync
Downstream Speed    73.9 Mbps
Upstream Speed    19.9 Mbps
Appointment Required    N
Fault Report Advised    N
NTE Power Status    PowerOn
Voice Line Test Result    Pass
Bridge Tap    Not Detected
Radio Frequency Ingress    Not Detected
Repetitive Electrical Impulse Noise    Not Detected
Cross Talk    Not Detected
Estimated Line Length In Metres    248.3
Upstream Rate Assessment    Very Good
Downstream Rate Assessment    Reasonable
Interference Pattern    Not Detected
Service Impact    No Impact Observed
Home Wiring Problem    Not Detected
Downstream Policing Discard Rate    0.0
Customer Traffic Level    Upstream and Downstream Traffic Detected
Technology    VDSL
Current 15Min Bin Retrains    0
Last 15Min Bin Retrains    0
Profile Name    0.128M-74M Downstream, Retransmission Low - 0.128M-20M Upstream, Error Protection Off
Time Stamp    2017-12-01T20:45:00
Parameters    MIN    MAX    AVG
Down Stream Line Rate    73.9 Mbps    73.9 Mbps    73.9 Mbps
Up Stream Line Rate    19.9 Mbps    19.9 Mbps    19.9 Mbps
Up Time    900.0 Sec    900.0 Sec    900.0 Sec
Retrains    0.0    0.0    0.0
Current and Last 15 Minute Bin Performance
Parameters    Last Traffic Count(Upto 15 mins)    Current Traffic Count(Upto 15 mins)
Start Time Stamp    2017-12-02T11:30:06Z    2017-12-02T11:45:06Z
Ingress Code Violation    0    0
Egress Code Violation    0    0
Errored Seconds    0    0
Severely Errored Seconds    0    0
Unavailable Seconds    0    0


Kind regards,
« Last Edit: December 02, 2017, 12:45:36 PM by adslmax »
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ejs

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Re: DLM with Banding Profile
« Reply #27 on: December 02, 2017, 12:47:04 PM »

So what? If you repeatedly contact them, sooner or later you'll contact someone who doesn't have a clue. Or someone who just makes a mistake.

Perhaps you could cap your own bandwidth to say 50Mb for a couple of weeks and see if that gets rid of the banding sooner than doing nothing?

Or if you just want other ways to annoy Plusnet before you leave, perhaps you could max out your line 24/7 to use up as much bandwidth as possible.
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adslmax

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Re: DLM with Banding Profile
« Reply #28 on: December 02, 2017, 12:50:55 PM »

I am going to place an order with AAISP Home: 1 400GB as a new line and fibre 80/20 for my 2nd room next week and find out if the line is sync at 80/20 while my PN is 74/20 - this one I will put a cease on it. And use AAISP instead on the new line.

PN say I will stay at 74Meg for longer now as DLM will not put me back on 80Meg because PN say there isn't no banding on any fibre, only on BTw with ADSL/ADSL2+. Fibre isn't on any banding, not on fibre that's what I being told by PN fault team. More likely they lying and put capped on my line 74Meg at PN end side not BT.

Now, got question to ask, is AAISP ran by BT network or TalkTalk Business network?
« Last Edit: December 02, 2017, 12:55:33 PM by adslmax »
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kitz

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Re: DLM with Banding Profile
« Reply #29 on: December 02, 2017, 01:15:22 PM »

Max why are you calling them?  We have repeatedly told you there is nothing they can do.  Your line is running between expected parameters, Openreach would not deem a fault and would likely end up making a charge.   

You will be in exactly the same position no matter which ISP you are with, there is possibly only one ISP who I could think of whom may risk the charge, but alternatively I could image their head honcho being pretty frank and telling you facts straight.

Pestering them every day achieves nothing.   I thought you said you were going to wait until after Christmas.   You are getting obsessive over something which is not impacting the way you use your connection and you are only winding yourself up more.   

Time for me to be frank too.  I and others try our utmost to make info available.  Often giving out info that is not known by the public.  You have people like Eric & Tony & BE & Ron developing tools to help monitor lines to aid and diagnose genuine line faults.    Be aware that sometimes Openreach and the ISPs do no like that this information is available to the general public because there are some who become obsessive to the point where they start shutting down on what they share because it achieves nothing other than additional work.

Some of us who have been around a long time may recall what happened with DMTtool and how a few people started tweaking without knowing what they were doing resulting in messing up their line and calling the ISP for assistance.   There were actually documents out there in which BT/Openreach scorned DMTtool because of people abusing it. 

Plusnet are one of the few ISPs I know who will run GEA tests if you ask.  If you keep abusing them, and causing additional work by asking them to run these tests every day, then they may well withdraw this facility for all their customers.  That is not fair.

Its no point blaming DLM - yes I agree banding is harsh - but at the end of the day you can't deny that it saw your line getting 80 resyncs in a very short time frame.
There is a need for DLM and all SPs around the globe using FTTC have some sort of DLM.    If your line was flapping around then you'd be grateful for it.

Quote
As discussed, currently your line is running without any indication of a fault and is running well within the line estimates and there is no banding on the line.
The numbers within the line speed profile name are simply taken from the DLM speeds and on fibre the DLM simply reacts to the line performance rather than dictating the speeds the line is achieving.

This I am not happy with and I'll pass that on to someone.   
Perhaps they looked at an old GEA test result as there's probably lots showing on your account... perhaps it was a novice rep... or perhaps they just said it to shut you up..  who knows?

Max...  you REALLY need to stop pestering them every day..  its not good for your own health.   I didn't want to have to do what happened over at TBB, but I too am beginning to get concerned that you are not listening to good advice.

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