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Author Topic: Procedure of a 10 Day Stabilisation Period?  (Read 8367 times)

jid

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Procedure of a 10 Day Stabilisation Period?
« on: May 07, 2008, 05:34:47 PM »

Hi All,

I have just switched my phone service to Tiscali, (I had their upto 8mb unlimited package before) so I guess that I am on their LLU network now?

I was just wondering if there is a 10day Stabilisation period on an LLU network when you switch from the DataStream products?

As my Data Rate, and Downstream SNR Margin are going crazy and the ADSL frequently disconnects and reconnects with "PPD Terminated Through Signal" often appearing in my routers log.

Is this the stabilisation period? Is it OK for my SNR Margin to be going right down to 3?

Thanks

Jamie
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Jamie

BT FTTP - 75meg | Sky Q |  Bridgend Weather

kitz

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Re: Procedure of a 10 Day Stabilisation Period?
« Reply #1 on: May 08, 2008, 05:45:48 AM »

Hi and welcome :)

>> I was just wondering if there is a 10day Stabilisation period on an LLU network when you switch from the DataStream products?

Tiscali doesnt have DLM profiling ala the BT system... but they do have their own profiles.
They dont give much away about their system or how its done.  It is supposedly meant to be a lot more flexible and have more stages than the BTw one. 
The only information I have is what profiles they do - see bottom of page Tiscali LLU Profiles
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jid

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Re: Procedure of a 10 Day Stabilisation Period?
« Reply #2 on: May 08, 2008, 04:30:09 PM »

Hi kitz,

I don't really understand these profiles?

Could you go through what a Profile is? I have read your website and understand it is a "sort of cap" on the line which limits the speed that your line will take to keep my line stable.

I have checked my line using your checker and have found the following:-

Line Attenuation: 30dB
dslMAX: 7904mbps           Line Profile: 6500mbps

Which one should I be looking at for the actual speed my line should take.

I am currently synced at 6144kbps as per my router. Does this possibly mean that my Line Profile as stated by the checker is about correct?

Or should I be getting in the 8mbps range

Thanks for the quick reply

Jamie
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Jamie

BT FTTP - 75meg | Sky Q |  Bridgend Weather

kitz

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Re: Procedure of a 10 Day Stabilisation Period?
« Reply #3 on: May 08, 2008, 05:28:47 PM »

It is actually to do with adsl and how it works and is actually more complicated than this.. but Ill try simplify it.

Adsl uses frequencies which are carried over your telephone line.
Think how if you were at the exchange and shouted to a house nearby and they would hear you.. but the further away then the less chance of hearing the signal.

The faster you sync, the higher frequencies are used.  The higher frequencies are more subsceptible to Noise.. and depending upon the length of your line the the higher frequency signals are obviously the ones that will "fade" first.

Because your on Tiscali LLU - Im sepcifically talking about the Tiscali Profiles and NOT the BTw IP profile in the next bit.

In order to stop your line syncing too high and possible loss of syncs tiscali could say limit your line to say sync at 4096 kbps.

Theres a few other things that the DLM can do and thats turn Error Correction and Interleaving on.  Turning both of these on helps your router recover from any errors and prevent loss of data.

Both Interleaving and Error Correction are turned on at the same time, but either of these can have different levels.  The depth of each interleaving profile is shown in the last column of that table (eg depth 8).

The table also shows in some profiles on that table the Target SNR, which is the "spare amount" of SNr Margin that your line must have to be able to sync at a certain speed.


---------------------------------------------------------------

>> dslMAX: 7904mbps 

Thats a guide as to the average speed you would expect a line of your length to sync at.  However it cant possibly take into account local variations... and some will sync higher and some slightly less.

>> I am currently synced at 6144kbps as per my router

Yes I would expect a 30dB line to sync a bit higher than that.  Are you plugged in at the master socket?  Theres a few tips which may help on this page ~ Can I do anything about low SNR?
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jid

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Re: Procedure of a 10 Day Stabilisation Period?
« Reply #4 on: May 08, 2008, 05:48:26 PM »

Hi kitz,

Thanks for the reply  :D

I am not plugged into the master socket howver that tends to make no difference as have read the guide on your site before!

I am getting download speeds of 6.5mbps speeds before but now thinkbroadband is telling me that I only download at 4.7mbps!

If it helps, my SNR Margin is 9-12dB.

How fast should my line be syncing at? I am considering contacting Tiscali about the issue.

Thanks again

Jamie
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Jamie

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kitz

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Re: Procedure of a 10 Day Stabilisation Period?
« Reply #5 on: May 09, 2008, 11:20:18 AM »

>> my SNR Margin is 9-12dB

Thats quite a bit spare and probably why you arent syncing at higher speeds.  It is possible that Tiscali have set you on a higher Target SNR profile in order to maintain stability.

If you want to post your line stats immediately after a resync then it may give more indication.
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jid

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Re: Procedure of a 10 Day Stabilisation Period?
« Reply #6 on: May 09, 2008, 02:01:40 PM »

After a sync :-

6dB

Data Rate: 4608kbps

(Much lower than yesterday :()
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Jamie

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roseway

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Re: Procedure of a 10 Day Stabilisation Period?
« Reply #7 on: May 09, 2008, 02:26:58 PM »

So that's a normal default noise margin then. Your data rate is much lower than one would expect from a line with only 30 dB attenuation, so either a fault has developed on your line or a large source of interference has recently started up near you. Is there any audible crackling or hiss on the telephone?
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jid

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Re: Procedure of a 10 Day Stabilisation Period?
« Reply #8 on: May 09, 2008, 04:13:27 PM »

So that's a normal default noise margin then. Your data rate is much lower than one would expect from a line with only 30 dB attenuation, so either a fault has developed on your line or a large source of interference has recently started up near you. Is there any audible crackling or hiss on the telephone?


No, the line is crisp and clear.

SNR is now 9dB after ReSync

Thanks for the reply

Jamie
« Last Edit: May 09, 2008, 04:18:54 PM by jid »
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Jamie

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b4dger

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Re: Procedure of a 10 Day Stabilisation Period?
« Reply #9 on: May 09, 2008, 06:00:39 PM »

I am not plugged into the master socket howver that tends to make no difference as have read the guide on your site before!

Just to make sure you've understood things - you don't need to just 'plug in to the master socket' you need to remove the lower faceplate (I'm assuming you have a modern Master - NTE5) which reveals the 'TEST' socket. When you remove the faceplate all your internal wiring is disconnected. This allows you to see if your extensions are causing problems (as they often do!) and gives you the best connection you can get.
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jid

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Re: Procedure of a 10 Day Stabilisation Period?
« Reply #10 on: May 09, 2008, 06:12:47 PM »

Hi,

Yes I do understand the way a master socket works.

But my house doesn't have the NTE5 Modern socket, I have an older socket that just reveals wiring.

Thanks for bringing that up.

Regards

Jamie
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Jamie

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jid

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Re: Procedure of a 10 Day Stabilisation Period?
« Reply #11 on: May 10, 2008, 03:53:26 PM »

Hi All,

I have been looking through the Router config pages and have found that the router seems to racking up a massive amount of errors? :(

Transmit    
Tx PDU's  108267   
Tx Total Bytes 16803867   
Tx Total Error Counts 0

Receive
Rx PDU's 162151
Rx Total Bytes 180789379
Rx Total Error Counts 318

Should all of those receive errors be there?

Is this why the lines SNR Margin drops really low at night and looses sync?

Regards

Jamie
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roseway

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Re: Procedure of a 10 Day Stabilisation Period?
« Reply #12 on: May 10, 2008, 04:34:29 PM »

No, a certain number of errors are inevitable in ADSL, and they don't cause the noise margin to fall (although one of the possible causes of errors is interference, which can also cause the noise margin to fall). How long had the router been connected when you noted those figures?
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jid

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Re: Procedure of a 10 Day Stabilisation Period?
« Reply #13 on: May 10, 2008, 08:30:25 PM »

The router had been on since 10am till 3:53pm (ish) so about 5hours 53mins

When syncing whilst booting the router, no errors are caused, which I have read can happen.

So I don't really know what is causing it.

Thanks for the reply

Jamie
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Jamie

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