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[hucknallred]

Hi
Long time lurker on here, now registered 
This site is a great source of info so I thought I'd post my experiences of going from ADSL to VDSL.

I've had ADSL for years, switching annually to take advantage of cashback etc. I was with O2 who became Sky, then I went Plusnet>EE>Sky & now BT infinity. About 2Km from the exchange I got between 18500 & 21000 down, depending on supplier & router, although I have used a Billion 8800DN for the last few years.

With a good combination of prepaid card & cashback I decided to switch to BT, which came in around £12 a month after all the perks. My cabinet is a fair distance away, I estimated 1Km. Based on ADSL speeds I thought I'd get around 30000 down. An OR engineer who came to troubleshoot an incoming call fault after the switch (turns out VM who own the number hadn't released it) got the details on his app & told me it was 1150m to the cabinet.

So it went live a week last Tuesday, initially around 30 down & 7 up it's gradually dropped & seems to have settled on a specific 24999 down & just over 6000 up has crept up to 6500 today.

From the info on here I deduce it's an ECI cabinet, cabling is all underground from 1995 when the house was built.

So I'm wondering if I can hope for more speed, I'll post my router stats below. One thing I've noticed is downstream SNR was at 6dB at the start, went down a bit & has now crept up to 6.7dB. G.INP does not look to be active yet?

xDSL
Mode   VDSL2
Traffic Type    PTM
Status    Up
Link Power State    L0
   Downstream   Upstream
Line Coding (Trellis)   On   On
SNR Margin (dB)   6.7   6.2
Attenuation (dB)   28.6   0.0
Output Power (dBm)   6.4   6.3
Attainable Rate (Kbps)   32480   6624
Rate (Kbps)   24999   6537
B (# of bytes in Mux Data Frame)   31   204
M (# of Mux Data Frames in an RS codeword)   1   1
T (# of Mux Data Frames in an OH sub-frame)   62   5
R (# of redundancy bytes in the RS codeword)   10   16
S (# of data symbols over which the RS code word spans)   0.0407   0.9966
L (# of bits transmitted in each data symbol)   8264   1774
D (interleaver depth)   803   1
I (interleaver block size in bytes)   42   221
N (RS codeword size)   42   221
Delay (msec)   8   0
INP (DMT symbol)   3.50   0.00
OH Frames   37965583   8296660
OH Frame Errors   2550   5
RS Words   527132030   119337
RS Correctable Errors   12110   11
RS Uncorrectable Errors   14   0
HEC Errors   235   0
OCD Errors   0   0
LCD Errors   0   0
Total Cells   258643099   0
Data Cells   191536155   0
Bit Errors   0   0
Total ES   28   5
Total SES   11   0
Total UAS   57   46

From Telnet:

adsl: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: Showtime
Last Retrain Reason:    1
Last initialization procedure status:   0
Max:    Upstream rate = 6634 Kbps, Downstream rate = 32477 Kbps
Bearer: 0, Upstream rate = 6537 Kbps, Downstream rate = 24999 Kbps

Link Power State:       L0
Mode:                   VDSL2 Annex B
VDSL2 Profile:          Profile 17a
TPS-TC:                 PTM Mode(0x0)
Trellis:                U:ON /D:ON
Line Status:            No Defect
Training Status:        Showtime
                Down            Up
SNR (dB):        6.7             6.2
Attn(dB):        28.6            0.0
Pwr(dBm):        6.4             6.3

                        VDSL2 framing
                        Bearer 0
MSGc:           36              33
B:              31              204
M:              1               1
T:              62              5
R:              10              16
S:              0.0407          0.9966
L:              8264            1774
D:              803             1
I:              42              221
N:              42              221

                        Counters
                        Bearer 0
OHF:            1519232         356214
OHFErr:         3               5
RS:             565057321               1670570
RSCorr:         14931           11
RSUnCorr:       14              0

                        Bearer 0
HEC:            2               0
OCD:            0               0
LCD:            0               0
Total Cells:    277248136               0
Data Cells:     197205743               0
Drop Cells:     0
Bit Errors:     0               0

ES:             28              5
SES:            11              0
UAS:            57              46
AS:             5768

                        Bearer 0
INP:            3.50            0.00
INPRein:        0.00            0.00
delay:          8               0
PER:            3.79            16.25
OR:             88.51           19.19
AgR:            25087.52        6556.65

Bitswap:        12/12           0/0

Total time = 1 days 16 hours 9 min 35 sec
FEC:            739488          9158
CRC:            2550            5
ES:             28              5
SES:            11              0
UAS:            57              46
LOS:            1               0
LOF:            8               0
LOM:            0               0
Latest 15 minutes time = 9 min 35 sec
FEC:            3619            0
CRC:            0               0
ES:             0               0
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Previous 15 minutes time = 15 min 0 sec
FEC:            1897            3
CRC:            0               1
ES:             0               1
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Latest 1 day time = 16 hours 9 min 35 sec
FEC:            269618          3309
CRC:            2525            5
ES:             15              5
SES:            11              0
UAS:            34              23
LOS:            1               0
LOF:            8               0
LOM:            0               0
Previous 1 day time = 24 hours 0 sec
FEC:            469870          5849
CRC:            25              0
ES:             13              0
SES:            0               0
UAS:            23              23
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Since Link time = 1 hours 36 min 7 sec
FEC:            14931           11
CRC:            3               5
ES:             1               5
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0

[lee111s]

Looks like you’ve been banded to 25meg, have you noticed any instability?

If you’re on an ECI cab then G.INP is currently not available. There are murmurs of a trial going to to try and get it working but they’ve tried and failed before.

[Dray]

Looks like your line has been banded presumably due to a lot of disconnections. Have you been rebooting or disconnecting often?

Is your home phone wiring optimal - is the router connected to a NTE5A/B/C master socket and all extension wiring connected to a SSFP? Something like this https://www.diynot.com/diy/media/untitled.30844/full

You may want to consider running DSLstats 24*7 if possible and maybe signing up to mydslwebstats to capture and share your connection statistics to allow some analysis of your connection.

[hucknallred]

Looks like your line has been banded presumably due to a lot of disconnections. Have you been rebooting or disconnecting often?

Is your home phone wiring optimal - is the router connected to a NTE5A/B/C master socket and all extension wiring connected to a SSFP? Something like this https://www.diynot.com/diy/media/untitled.30844/full

You may want to consider running DSLstats 24*7 if possible and maybe signing up to mydslwebstats to capture and share your connection statistics to allow some analysis of your connection.

I was doing some messing with the billion settings, trying to get IPV6 working etc. So yes, a few reboots. I'm now leaving it alone. Wiring is all fine, a new VDSL faceplate was fitted a couple of years ago by OR (another routing issue on supplier switch). Router is in the garage connected to the faceplate with Cat 5e cable.

So will this banding go if I now leave it alone?

[Dray]

It should do but DLM is quick to apply it and  s l o w  to remove it.

[WWWombat]

Interleaving is also turned on quite high; the framing parameters show it to be using 10 bytes out of every 42 for FEC overheads ... nearly 25%.

With both heavy interleaving and banding, it is likely that DLM was seeing a lot of errors, not just the resyncs. The highish FEC counts say that, even at the capped speed, there is still interference being felt on the line.

The ES counts are now low enough to show that the interference is "contained", but I wouldn't hold out high hopes for a huge improvement. Not, at least, until G.INP arrives.

[ccarmock]

I have a similar experience - just under 1km from cabinet, Originally I had a Cisco 897VAW router and was using homeplugs also.  The home plugs generated a load of FECs - hundreds per second.   The line ended up banded at 24999 just like this one appears to be.    I removed the home plugs and found interference and FECs stopped.   Banding lifted after about 6 weeks to 29999 and then 34999 but has been stuck at 34999 for about 8 months.  Upstream banded at 4999

Router reports max attainable down of 39000 and up of 7995.  Banding is my problem and can't be reset by the ISP, but won't seem to budge this last bit.  G.INP is on for me.    So hopefully banding will lift for you, but it could take a long time.

[Moderator edited to correct a typo.]

[hucknallred]

Thanks for the insight so far. Just to be 100% sure I'm looking at the FEC numbers from running "ADSL info --stats" via telnet?

I do have a smart dialler box wired in that you'd class as an extension, I'll remove this & have a look at the stats again, provided I'm looking at them correctly.

[Dray]

It's no use looking at FEC numbers. These are generally error corrections.

You should really track ES (Error seconds) and disconnections which is what DLM is interested in.

See http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/DLM_calculator.php

[WWWombat]

Thanks for the insight so far. Just to be 100% sure I'm looking at the FEC numbers from running "ADSL info --stats" via telnet?

That's right. For errors, I normally take a look at the different groups at the end - latest 1 day, previous 1 day, since link time.

As Dray says FECs are corrected. The count tells us simultaneously that noise exists, but is being handled. The ES count tells us how much noise is not being fixed - which DLM pays more attention to.

[hucknallred]

ES doesn't seem that high downstream, but more upstream:

Status: Showtime
Last Retrain Reason:    0
Last initialization procedure status:   0
Max:    Upstream rate = 6654 Kbps, Downstream rate = 32392 Kbps
Bearer: 0, Upstream rate = 6537 Kbps, Downstream rate = 24999 Kbps

Link Power State:       L0
Mode:                   VDSL2 Annex B
VDSL2 Profile:          Profile 17a
TPS-TC:                 PTM Mode(0x0)
Trellis:                U:ON /D:ON
Line Status:            No Defect
Training Status:        Showtime
                Down            Up
SNR (dB):        6.6             6.2
Attn(dB):        28.6            0.0
Pwr(dBm):        6.4             6.3

                        VDSL2 framing
                        Bearer 0
MSGc:           36              33
B:              31              204
M:              1               1
T:              62              5
R:              10              16
S:              0.0407          0.9966
L:              8264            1774
D:              803             1
I:              42              221
N:              42              221

                        Counters
                        Bearer 0
OHF:            33116787                512172
OHFErr:         43              372
RS:             3729510491              2056595
RSCorr:         741883          1131
RSUnCorr:       2219            0

                        Bearer 0
HEC:            376             0
OCD:            0               0
LCD:            0               0
Total Cells:    1748590998              0
Data Cells:     467720458               0
Drop Cells:     0
Bit Errors:     0               0

ES:             10              270
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
AS:             125733

                        Bearer 0
INP:            3.50            0.00
INPRein:        0.00            0.00
delay:          8               0
PER:            3.79            16.25
OR:             88.51           19.19
AgR:            25087.52        6556.65

Bitswap:        4168/4184               462/463

Total time = 1 days 10 hours 55 min 33 sec
FEC:            741883          1131
CRC:            43              372
ES:             10              270
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Latest 15 minutes time = 10 min 33 sec
FEC:            3800            11
CRC:            0               4
ES:             0               3
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Previous 15 minutes time = 15 min 0 sec
FEC:            3839            15
CRC:            0               4
ES:             0               4
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Latest 1 day time = 10 hours 55 min 33 sec
FEC:            236883          236
CRC:            2               93
ES:             1               80
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Previous 1 day time = 24 hours 0 sec
FEC:            505000          895
CRC:            41              279
ES:             9               190
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Since Link time = 1 days 10 hours 55 min 33 sec
FEC:            741883          1131
CRC:            43              372
ES:             10              270
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
 >
 > adsl info --stats
adsl: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: Showtime
Last Retrain Reason:    0
Last initialization procedure status:   0
Max:    Upstream rate = 6671 Kbps, Downstream rate = 32408 Kbps
Bearer: 0, Upstream rate = 6537 Kbps, Downstream rate = 24999 Kbps

Link Power State:       L0
Mode:                   VDSL2 Annex B
VDSL2 Profile:          Profile 17a
TPS-TC:                 PTM Mode(0x0)
Trellis:                U:ON /D:ON
Line Status:            No Defect
Training Status:        Showtime
                Down            Up
SNR (dB):        6.6             6.3
Attn(dB):        28.6            0.0
Pwr(dBm):        6.4             6.3

                        VDSL2 framing
                        Bearer 0
MSGc:           36              33
B:              31              204
M:              1               1
T:              62              5
R:              10              16
S:              0.0407          0.9966
L:              8264            1774
D:              803             1
I:              42              221
N:              42              221

                        Counters
                        Bearer 0
OHF:            33134965                516367
OHFErr:         43              372
RS:             3736272362              2329170
RSCorr:         742150          1131
RSUnCorr:       2219            0

                        Bearer 0
HEC:            376             0
OCD:            0               0
LCD:            0               0
Total Cells:    1751908150              0
Data Cells:     467894972               0
Drop Cells:     0
Bit Errors:     0               0

ES:             10              270
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
AS:             125801

                        Bearer 0
INP:            3.50            0.00
INPRein:        0.00            0.00
delay:          8               0
PER:            3.79            16.25
OR:             88.51           19.19
AgR:            25087.52        6556.65

Bitswap:        4168/4184               462/463

Total time = 1 days 10 hours 56 min 41 sec
FEC:            742150          1131
CRC:            43              372
ES:             10              270
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Latest 15 minutes time = 11 min 41 sec
FEC:            4067            11
CRC:            0               4
ES:             0               3
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Previous 15 minutes time = 15 min 0 sec
FEC:            3839            15
CRC:            0               4
ES:             0               4
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Latest 1 day time = 10 hours 56 min 41 sec
FEC:            237150          236
CRC:            2               93
ES:             1               80
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Previous 1 day time = 24 hours 0 sec
FEC:            505000          895
CRC:            41              279
ES:             9               190
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Since Link time = 1 days 10 hours 56 min 41 sec
FEC:            742150          1131
CRC:            43              372
ES:             10              270
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0

[AngelRex]

Does anyone know what (if any) effect the PWR has on the line?

Example above - Pwr(dBm):        6.4             6.3

My line is about 11.1 on down and 3.1 on up, my snr is basically the same as above 6.1-6.6

Just curious.

Ta.

[j0hn]

The 2 cabinet vendors show power totally different.
Yours will be Huawei, the OPs will be ECI

My ECI cabinet showed my power as 6dBm down 6dBm up.
My Huawei shows 13.5dBm down 3.5dBm up.
Very similar sync speeds.

Most lines show similar.

[WWWombat]

PWR is the transmission power.

In VDSL2, the power is limited twice: once per tone, to quite a low value, and once as an aggregate value, when added across all tones.
When restricting "per-tone", there are special restrictions put in place downstream, to prevent interference to ADSL from the exchange. There is also a restriction upstream if you are close to the cabinet.

When the modem displays a value, it is likely to be the current aggregate transmission power, at least for Huawei's.
Mine isn't much different from @j0hn's downstream, but wildly different upstream: currently 13.1dBm down, -8.9dBm up.
I'm very close to the cabinet.

[hucknallred]

After reading all manner of threads here & elsewhere, I decided to tidy things up in my garage where the router lives.

I have the newest type NTE socket with the RJ45 socket at the top for router connection, I did have some extension wiring that I've now removed.
I have a home made Cat5e cable that plugs into the NTE outlet & runs to the garage into the router, probably a 10m run. Where the NTE socket is isn't the best location for a router, hence this setup.

In the garage I have all manner of stuff, a PC acting as TV server, a couple of NAS boxes & a Gigabit switch which the router goes into along with all the other stuff in the house. The Billion router lives amongst all this, I also had the BT supplied HH there which was still plugged in from when I used it on day 1.
So 2 routers & a switch almost on top of each other. I first removed the HH & then untangled the Billion, managing to move it a good foot or so away from any other devices, tidying the cables in the process, whilst maintaining sync.

I've had DSLstats running since last night which showed an immediate drop on downstream SNR margin of around 1dB to 5.8dB. Could I get some DLM intervention here & a bit more speed?