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[cwaite]

I have got a Openreach Engineer coming out this morning to look at the line, I have managed to get a copy of my next door neighbours stats, I have noticed that his attenuation is higher than mine and his SNR is lower, shouldn't my speed be better than his considering my Attenuation is Lower, also I wonder why my SNR is 3x as high as my next door neighbour.

Is there anything I should point out the Openreach engineer, to help them investigate the problem.

As I say we are connected to the same pole and the same cabinet, my neighbour is on a 40/2 product from PlusNet and I am on an 80/20 product from Plusnet

Below are my stats from my HG612 Modem

           Sync (kbps)    22400          3664                           Interleaving          2             1
 Attainable rate (kbps)    26876          3753                                    INP      51.00          0.00
       Attenuation (dB)     26.2           0.0
        SNR Margin (dB)      9.8           6.8
           Power (dBmV)     10.1           6.8                            SES (total)         17             0
RSUnCorr errors (delta)        0             0                RSUnCorr errors (total)          0             0
Errored seconds (delta)        0             0                Errored seconds (total)        176          1099
       Bitswaps (delta)       45             0                       Bitswaps (total)     482424          1971
     CRC errors (delta)        0             0                     CRC errors (total)       1479          1192
     HEC errors (delta)        0             0                     HEC errors (total)          0             0
     FEC errors (delta)       14             1                     FEC errors (total)    3213704          5840
 ________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

My Next door neighbours plusnet One stats:

1. Product name:   Plusnet Hub
2. Serial number:   *********************
3. Firmware version:   Software version 4.7.5.1.83.8.237.2.2 Last updated 14/08/17
4. Board version:   Plusnet Hub One
5. DSL uptime:   0 days, 15:03:56
6. Data rate:   2001 / 39378
7. Maximum data rate:   6239 / 37847
8. Noise margin:   16.3 / 3.9
9. Line attenuation:   33.5 / 28.6
10. Signal attenuation:   33.5 / 25.6
11. Data sent/received:   6.2 GB / 94.8 GB
12. Broadband username:   ****************
13. 2.4 GHz Wireless network/SSID:   ************
14. 2.4 GHz Wireless connections:   Enabled (802.11 b/g/n (up to 144 Mb/s))
15. 2.4 GHz Wireless security:   WPA2
16. 2.4 GHz Wireless channel:   Automatic (Smart Wireless)
17. 5 GHz Wireless network/SSID:   *******************
18. 5 GHz Wireless connections:   Enabled (802.11 a/n/ac (up to 1300 Mb/s))
19. 5 GHz Wireless security:   WPA2
20. 5 GHz Wireless channel:   Automatic (Smart Wireless)
21. Firewall:   Disabled
22. MAC Address:   ****************
23. Modulation:   G.993.2 Annex B

Thanks in advance

[WWWombat]

I have noticed that his attenuation is higher than mine and his SNR is lower, shouldn't my speed be better than his considering my Attenuation is Lower

All other things being equal, yes.

However, with VDSL2, all other things are not equal. In particular, the state of your line compared to the state of his line, and any differing levels of crosstalk.

Your line, for example, could have a slightly corroded joint. And/or it could be being hit by more crosstalk from other subscribers. These can be significant inequalities.

also I wonder why my SNR is 3x as high as my next door neighbour.

There are probably two main reasons why this figure differs (although you probably mean SNRM, not SNR; the M is significant)

Remember that a year ago, everyone would have a target SNRM of 6dB. You would have expected everyone to have this SNRM, unless there is a good reason.

a) Your line looks to be banded, with an artificial cap set to the downstream speed of 22.4Mbps.
This is somewhat less than the attainable speed; when actual speed is lower than attainable, it shows up as a higher SNRM than the target 6dB.
In your case, being 4.4Mbps below the attainable translates to 3.8dB SNRM above the 6dB target.

b) Your neighbour's line is currently running about 1.5Mbps above the attainable speed.
The reverse argument of (a) applies here: when actual speed is higher than attainable, it shows up as a lower SNRM than the target.
In their case, being 1.5Mbps above the attainable translates to 2.1dB SNRM below the 6dB target.

Comparing those two outcomes suggests a 3rd factor might be in play here... "XdB"

c) Up until earlier this year, BT set a 6dB SNRM target for every line. Now, however, they employ a system colloquially known as "XdB", where they adjust the 6dB target if line conditions are good. DLM monitors the line, and decides whether it could cope with (and gain from) a 5dB target instead. Or 4dB, or 3dB.

Your (capped) line will not be eligible for this system, so your target will be 6dB still.

Your neighbour's line might have been set to a lower target SNRM, and my conclusions in (b) would need to be adjusted:
c1) If it were set a target of 5dB, then it would be running 1.5Mbps above attainable speed, while being 1.1dB below the 5dB target.
c2) If it were set a target of 4dB, then it would be running 1.5Mbps above attainable speed, while being 0.1dB below the 4dB target.

On balance, I'd say that (c1) was more likely, then (b).

Is there anything I should point out the Openreach engineer, to help them investigate the problem.

You can mention the difference in speed, but there is little else that can help.

Presumably Plusnet's support staff ran some line tests that showed a fault. Is that why an engineer appointment was booked?

[ejs]

Which attenuation figure are you comparing yours with- line or signal? One is higher, the other is lower.

[Chrysalis]

Wombat explains it but a very simple version of the answer.

Either.

1 - Neighbour is also affected by crosstalk but modem has not yet resynced so currently is syncing higher than he/she would do on a resync noted by the fact their attainable is lower than the current sync.
2 - DLM has them on a lower snrm target which boosts sync speed at the expense of potential reliability.

Apologies if you have told us what cabinet type you on (ECI or hauwei) as I havent checked, but if you on ECI, its also possible he is on fast path whilst you are interleaved so you are losing some sync speed to FEC overheads.

[cwaite]

Presumably Plusnet's support staff ran some line tests that showed a fault. Is that why an engineer appointment was booked?

My throughput fell below what plusnet said was my minimum speed (19.8mbps)

Which attenuation figure are you comparing yours with- line or signal? One is higher, the other is lower.

The HG612 on Shows Attenuation it doesnt state where its Signal or Line

Mine: From HG612
Attenuation (dB)     26.2/0.0

Neighbours from Plusnet One
9. Line attenuation:   33.5 / 28.6
10. Signal attenuation:   33.5 / 25.6

Wombat explains it but a very simple version of the answer.

Either.

1 - Neighbour is also affected by crosstalk but modem has not yet resynced so currently is syncing higher than he/she would do on a resync noted by the fact their attainable is lower than the current sync.
2 - DLM has them on a lower snrm target which boosts sync speed at the expense of potential reliability.

Apologies if you have told us what cabinet type you on (ECI or hauwei) as I havent checked, but if you on ECI, its also possible he is on fast path whilst you are interleaved so you are losing some sync speed to FEC overheads.

We had a power cut for a few seconds on Sunday, my neighbour hasnt got a UPS so it would have resynced then.
The cabinet houses a Broadcom (ChipSet Vendor Id:BDCM:0xa48c)

The enginer turned up and replaced the socket for a new 5C socket, and reset the line but said as he was a Green Speed Engineer, that was all he could do, it seems that my Sync rate has increased but my through put has fallen by another 2mbs, also G.INP has been turned off (the engineer did not know what G.INP was let alone how to restore it)

The OR Engineer started work at around 11:15am and finished around 12:45pm and just said that the line is a little slower than before and he could do no more, he said I would need to get intouch with Plusnet and ask them to send out a Broadband Boost Engineer (plusnet have told me they dont exsist anymore and they could request anything like this???)

I have post my stats from the last 24 hours as I say the Engineer started work at 11:15am and finsihed around 12:45pm today, can anyone see from these stats why its now even slower than before
https://1drv.ms/f/s!AuuoQtRhe-fgnqYD-zgHSIZgKzDyLw

I have also attached a BT Wholesale Speedtest that I ran this evening

[banger]

To me the BTw test says it all. It tells you the acceptable range and your download and upload are both not acceptable.

[Black Sheep]

The enginer turned up and replaced the socket for a new 5C socket, and reset the line but said as he was a Green Speed Engineer, that was all he could do, it seems that my Sync rate has increased but my through put has fallen by another 2mbs, also G.INP has been turned off (the engineer did not know what G.INP was let alone how to restore it)

The OR Engineer started work at around 11:15am and finished around 12:45pm and just said that the line is a little slower than before and he could do no more, he said I would need to get intouch with Plusnet and ask them to send out a Broadband Boost Engineer (plusnet have told me they dont exsist anymore and they could request anything like this???)

It took the engineer an hour and a half to change a socket and perform a DLM reset ?? Stevie Wonder could have done it quicker !!!

He may not be aware that G.INP is another way of saying ReTx ....... which he should know about as ReTx is how it is stated in all official docs.

He isn't a 'Green speed engineer' ............ he means the job he picked up was classed as 'Green' ........ which means your circuit is performing at approx. the same speed as others with your attenuation, and the ILQ is good.
Our remit is to not perform any other speculative changes if the task is given to us by the ISP as 'Green'.

Broadband Boost is alive and well as far as I am concerned, I did one only last week.
Whether PN use that option (all ISP's were initially allowed to opt in to boost engineering tasks, but only BTr/BTw took the offer up), I don't know You may only have the 'SFI engineering visit' option

The above is for info purposes only. 

 

[j0hn]

To me the BTw test says nothing at all. OpenReach are only interested in the sync speed. Throughput is down to the ISP. OpenReach can't do anything at all about that.

G.INP is ALWAYS removed with a DLM reset. It can't be turned back on, by anyone. It will come back in a few days and the sync should increase further.
If you leave the line alone then in a couple weeks DLM may lower the target snrm, pushing your line up to about 31-32Mb.

As I said above, you need to stop concentrating on your neighbours line. It may never be possible to match them. Crosstalk is very very variable.

Their line without the lower snrm target is roughly 32-33Mb. Your line is about 27Mb. Perfectly normal variance from using different chipset modems and crosstalk impacts. Your neighbours Plusnet Hub One is just a rebadged BT HomeHub 5A.

My advise is wait a few days for G.INP.
Then hopefully right after that you'll see the lower snrm targets being applied.

[burakkucat]

One thing that might be worthwhile flagging here . . .

Do not look at the Huawei HG612 GUI for circuit statistics. It has been coded incorrectly and muddles the data.

Use the CLI and, from the Busybox shell, issue one or more of the following --

xdslcmd info --stats
xdslcmd info --pbParams
xdslcmd info --Bits
xdslcmd info --SNR
xdslcmd info --QLN
xdslcmd info --Hlog
xdslcmd info --show
xdslcmd info --vendor
xdslcmd info --vectoring
xdslcmd --version
equipcmd swversion display

[cwaite]

One thing that might be worthwhile flagging here . . .

Do not look at the Huawei HG612 GUI for circuit statistics. It has been coded incorrectly and muddles the data.

I didn't look at the GUI, I logged in via telnet, then entered busybox and used the command xdslcmd info --vendor to get the ChipSet Vendor Id:BDCM:0xa48c

It took the engineer an hour and a half to change a socket and perform a DLM reset ?? Stevie Wonder could have done it quicker !!!

He did a few tests, removed a filter that a REIN engineer fitted a few years ago and moved the socket as it was under a radiator (so awkward to get to)

He may not be aware that G.INP is another way of saying ReTx ....... which he should know about as ReTx is how it is stated in all official docs.

Yes I was shocked that I seemed to know more than him!

He isn't a 'Green speed engineer' ............ he means the job he picked up was classed as 'Green' ........ which means your circuit is performing at approx. the same speed as others with your attenuation, and the ILQ is good.
Our remit is to not perform any other speculative changes if the task is given to us by the ISP as 'Green'.

So he wasn't really going to do anything anyway, so I was lucky he reset the line and changed the socket! I am Annoyed that I lost a days wages for nothing!

Broadband Boost is alive and well as far as I am concerned, I did one only last week.
Whether PN use that option (all ISP's were initially allowed to opt in to boost engineering tasks, but only BTr/BTw took the offer up), I don't know You may only have the 'SFI engineering visit' option

PlusNet said that they raised the broadband fault with BTwholesale, so I would think that they should be have the option of a Broadband Boost Engineer.

To me the BTw test says it all. It tells you the acceptable range and your download and upload are both not acceptable.

Exactly the Colour red in the bar and the figures kind of give the game away, its just frustrating trying to get plusnet to understand what these test results mean.

[Chrysalis]

Black Sheep, broadband boost is what I had a couple of years back on plusnet when I made a very angry call to plusnet, a manager rang me back telling me he authorised it and thats the visit where my install engineer turned up to do a pair swap which fixed my speed at the time.  So plusnet at least used to use them, although may not be as standard procedure possibly needing manager approval.

My line status wasnt green tho its worth mentioning that, My line failed the GEA test due to dropping more than 25% speed in a short time interval and was also comfortably below my low clean estimate.

[Black Sheep]

it's worth pointing out that the ISP dictate whether the ILQ is 'green' and the diktat is to visit the premises and test the line.

We should by now, all be aware that 'green' does not always follow that the circuit is fault free, what the 'green' marker on a job does mean is that we are not allowed to go changing pairs or spend time wandering around the network IF a fault is not picked up on the tests performed on-site.

At the OP ........... you haven't really lost a days wages for 'nothing', as the fault was driven by yourself via the ISP, the socket re-homed to an appropriate place and a service affecting REIN filter has been removed. Also, the circuit has been reset.
Add to that your MPF has had a 'Health check' via our PQT test ..... it has been worthwhile taking some time off work.

** I may as well add to the noobies looking on, we don't request you take a full day off work for our appointment slots. We have 0800-1300 or 1300-1800 available .... one or the other will be suggested.
Also, you don't have to be in attendance yourself, any adult can be the 'key holder' so long as they are prepared to wait in the house with the engineer whilst he performs his work.

[cwaite]

** I may as well add to the noobies looking on, we don't request you take a full day off work for our appointment slots. We have 0800-1300 or 1300-1800 available .... one or the other will be suggested.

You can't really just take half day of work as If you booked an 8am to 1pm slot and Engineer turns up at 1pm then it may take them several hours to complete the job, not really worth me going to work at 4pm.

I don't like booking afternoon appointments as I have heard of so many EU's having an engineer turn up after 5pm and either do a rush job and end up not fixing the fault so they can ensure they can knock off at 6pm or like me have someone turn up at 5:15pm and say they can't do anything this evening and will need to come back in the morning.

[Black Sheep]

Fair point ...... I have to say though, from decades of experience ...... it will be as rare as the proverbial rocking-horse do-dah having an engineer turn up at 1300 for an AM appointment.

Our 'Controls' go to the ends of the earth ringing all and sundry, (along with our managers) to get the AM slots out well before 1200. We are requested to RARA (Ring ahead - ring after) the EU to give an ETA, thus giving the EU as much opportunity as one possibly can to arrange a house-sitter, should the job run past 1300.

[cwaite]

At 06:45 last Friday G.INP was turned back on and my sync on the router is showing 28999kbps, however, my profile at plusnet still seems to show 25mbs, do plusnet need to do their magic to get the profile in sync? Or is this correct, I always though that your profile was around 96% of your sync speed on VDSL?

 

I have attached some pictures of my Stats from my HG612 Modem and a recent speed test from BT Wholesale and My speed as shown on plusnets page (https://portal.plus.net/my.html?action=data_transfer_speed)