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Author Topic: G.Inp on ECI Possibly Delayed  (Read 55546 times)

skyeci

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Re: G.Inp on ECI Possibly Delayed
« Reply #45 on: February 28, 2017, 09:19:31 AM »

Yes that's true BUT and its a big BUT BT are using substandard equipment in ECI cabinets, that is the point I think being made here.

If you are on Huawei cabinets then you have a superior service no matter how far you are from the cabinet or how many disturbers you might have. BT have a duty in my view to either fix it or replace the ECI estate with equipment which is not substandard. Now I guess the bean counters want ECI to fix the stuff but it seems likely that their design is so flawed that this is unlikely to be possible at least in the short term. If it cannot be fixed then as it is not fit for purpose ECI shold be made to pay a significant refund to BT which might just allow something else to be done.

Stuart


My thoughts exactly. We pay the same we should get the same but we dont.

Eci users should get a discount if anything due to not getting the same services as huawei users.

Black Sheep

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Re: G.Inp on ECI Possibly Delayed
« Reply #46 on: February 28, 2017, 09:22:38 AM »

When the original contract was signed, I don't think G.INP was a thing, so ECI won't be contractually bound to pay compensation for a technology which was developed after the initial roll out.

Openreach could have said to Huawei, we're not implementing G.INP so that it's the same acorss the board for all end users, but that would be stupid.

That is a very good point.
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Ronski

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Re: G.Inp on ECI Possibly Delayed
« Reply #47 on: February 28, 2017, 10:18:53 AM »

Hi

I doubt BT are worried about this scenario, for a start no one can prove anything as you can't swap out from an ECI cab to an Huawei to prove what speed you would get.  Plus VDSL has many variables nothing is guaranteed.

Yes some people can,  one forum member here has already done just that. There are a number of ECI cabs round here with Huawei twins,  mine included,  once it's live I intend to swap. This will become more common as BT clearly appear to have stopped installing ECI cabs,  I wonder why. .......... may be they realise they offer a substandard service.

http://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php/topic,18678.msg335200.html#msg335200



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Chrysalis

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Re: G.Inp on ECI Possibly Delayed
« Reply #48 on: February 28, 2017, 11:02:02 AM »

I refuse to believe it takes a year to write a single firmware update, of course I am aware its possible there has been multiple updates written since the last public update last year, but we only know about the latest one.

So based on that I see 2 scenarios.

1 - ECI written an update to address the issues raised last year, and openreach sat on the update as they have a limited testing schedule, they started testing it this year prior to the expected march rollout and found a new problem they decided they cannot ignore.
2 - Several updates have been done but each keeps getting issues, and the latest one is the one andyhcz leaked.  This however makes less sense as if they all kept having less problems why previously announce it was going ahead this spring?

I also believe when the rollout was underway with the M41s, BT were not even thinking of g.inp and vectoring, their concern was simply rolling out VDSL2 as quickly and cheaply as possible and its this reason I believe ECI have not broken their contract, BT are now simply asking them for some spec enhancement that wasnt originally thought about due to the short termism. Speculation on my part, based on what we know already.  As someone else said this is probably a very low priority issue for BT, as g.inp does not affect the product they are marketing, it meets ASA requirements for a 80/20 product.  The only business case for g.inp is that it can reduce fault reports as the technology is quite good at masking issues on lines.

The way to make you realise the situation is not as bad as it could have been is that without the cheaper ECI cabinets I expect the commercial rollout would have covered less properties, and I certainly prefer a ECI based VDSL service over either ADSL or cable broadband.

What about the viability of running a 3db target without g.inp? its viable. As shown on ADSL but I am not sure if they will risk it as I think fault reports will inevitably increase.  My own opinion is that the best boundaries for SNRM targets is 1,4,7,10 db and so on not 3,6,9.  My own line has comparable error rates with a 4.5db snrm vs a 6db snrm.  If my theory is right it would increase when dropping below 4db but anything above 4db it will have a comparable ES rate to 6db.
« Last Edit: February 28, 2017, 11:06:55 AM by Chrysalis »
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skyeci

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Re: G.Inp on ECI Possibly Delayed
« Reply #49 on: February 28, 2017, 11:29:39 AM »

Now with the new profiles rolling out huawei users will be enjoying faster syncs too.
Told the wife we need to move house  ::)

ktz392837

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Re: G.Inp on ECI Possibly Delayed
« Reply #50 on: February 28, 2017, 11:34:28 AM »



Openreach could have said to Huawei, we're not implementing G.INP so that it's the same acorss the board for all end users, but that would be stupid.

Yes stupid like getting two suppliers supply such different quality of hardware.

The way I look at without GINP and without 3db ECI users are looking at 20-30% less speed this needs to be taken into account in any advertising of the product.

Also it may not have been in the original contract but i doubt ECI have implemented (or not as the case appears) GINP for free.

I get it that it is just tough luck but I do not need to agree with it.

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lee111s

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Re: G.Inp on ECI Possibly Delayed
« Reply #51 on: February 28, 2017, 11:45:08 AM »


Yes stupid like getting two suppliers supply such different quality of hardware.

The way I look at without GINP and without 3db ECI users are looking at 20-30% less speed this needs to be taken into account in any advertising of the product.

Also it may not have been in the original contract but i doubt ECI have implemented (or not as the case appears) GINP for free.

I get it that it is just tough luck but I do not need to agree with it.

So should Openreach remove G.INP and the 3db functions from Huawei cabs so that it's fair for everyone?

It's likely one supplier couldn't meet the demands of Openreach when they first started to deploy, therefore 2 were used. Not only that, both vendors were able to supply what was required at the time.

The issue here is an ECI issue. Openreach couldn't have predicted the future to see that ECI cabs would suffer the issues they do.
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Bowdon

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Re: G.Inp on ECI Possibly Delayed
« Reply #52 on: February 28, 2017, 11:54:29 AM »

Yes some people can,  one forum member here has already done just that. There are a number of ECI cabs round here with Huawei twins,  mine included,  once it's live I intend to swap. This will become more common as BT clearly appear to have stopped installing ECI cabs,  I wonder why. .......... may be they realise they offer a substandard service.

Does the huawei twins show up as seperate cabinets on the maps/lists or is it just included in the ECI listing?

All but one cabinet in my town is ECI. The only Huawei one was put in by BDUK, and was the most recent one.

I might start an ECI Club!  ;D
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Ronski

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Re: G.Inp on ECI Possibly Delayed
« Reply #53 on: February 28, 2017, 01:26:38 PM »

Does the huawei twins show up as seperate cabinets on the maps/lists or is it just included in the ECI listing?

Not quite site what you mean by the above,  on my map I've just added a comment to the cab that it has a Huawei twin.

NDBRO18 and NDRAM 6 both have Huawei twins installed, NDBRO 6 should also by now, and I think NDBRO 23 may have.
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PhilipD

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Re: G.Inp on ECI Possibly Delayed
« Reply #54 on: February 28, 2017, 03:10:25 PM »

Hi

Yes some people can,  one forum member here has already done just that. There are a number of ECI cabs round here with Huawei twins,  mine included,  once it's live I intend to swap. This will become more common as BT clearly appear to have stopped installing ECI cabs,  I wonder why. .......... may be they realise they offer a substandard service.

http://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php/topic,18678.msg335200.html#msg335200

That is a very rare exception and again only the same people here complaining of this will ever remotely consider trying it just to swap to a Huawei cabinet.  Out of the millions of customers how many do you think are going to do this?

Regards

Phil





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PhilipD

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Re: G.Inp on ECI Possibly Delayed
« Reply #55 on: February 28, 2017, 03:22:41 PM »

Hi


My thoughts exactly. We pay the same we should get the same but we dont.

Eci users should get a discount if anything due to not getting the same services as huawei users.

But no one gets the same guaranteed speeds or performance levels anyway regardless of the type of cabinet. 

So lets say for argument there is one ECI cabinet that by luck everyone connected to is less 300 Metres distance and they all enjoy 80/20 on fastpath.  A Huawei the other end of town mainly serves properties some distance away and the majority of customers are connected slower than 80/20 and most are higher latency due to interleaving.  You are suggesting the ECI cabinet people should receive a discount, how is that fair in that circumstance?

My point is, there are bigger variables in a persons sync speed than just the fact they are connected to one make of cabinet or the other, but no one receives discounts because their line fairs a bit worse than someone else's.  The only option is a reduced speed product.

If BT were forced to give discounts to customers on ECI cabinets all they would do is turn off G.INP on Huawei cabinets to create a level playing field to avoid messing around with discounts.

Regards

Phil



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Ronski

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Re: G.Inp on ECI Possibly Delayed
« Reply #56 on: February 28, 2017, 03:55:32 PM »

Hi

That is a very rare exception and again only the same people here complaining of this will ever remotely consider trying it just to swap to a Huawei cabinet.  Out of the millions of customers how many do you think are going to do this?

Regards

Phil

I was just pointing out it is possible,  can't means it can't be done, no matter how rare it is even just one person doing it means it can.

I do realise that they are not going to rip out eci cabs,  or discount eci lines, but that doesn't mean we have to be happy about it, I'm also not over the moon about the fact that I get a slower speed than others,  but then others get less than me. The only way that would change is if we get full fibre*, which we will do as Virgin is going be rolled out around here. .....supposedly. * not sure if that will still entail coax though with virgin.

I'm not planning on changing cab types solely because of the switch to Huawei I'm also hoping I'll end up with a better performing line. I'm approximately 450 to 500 meters from the cab, yet I currently get 47/6. Used to get 12 up, but that's slowly dropped,  down stream has fluctuated but overall  has stayed around same.
« Last Edit: February 28, 2017, 03:59:28 PM by Ronski »
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skyeci

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Re: G.Inp on ECI Possibly Delayed
« Reply #57 on: February 28, 2017, 03:57:26 PM »

Not referring to line speeds. Purely on the infastructure. The majority of eci users have no g.inp or the new lower snr profiles. This is not available at present yet those on huawei will have it. My line is hit by high levels of ES - g.inp would be nice. Paying the same as huawei users should allow us eci users to have the same benefits/options dont you think?  ;)

Dray

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Re: G.Inp on ECI Possibly Delayed
« Reply #58 on: February 28, 2017, 03:59:22 PM »

You can tell them all about it on twitter https://twitter.com/openreachgb
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broadstairs

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Re: G.Inp on ECI Possibly Delayed
« Reply #59 on: February 28, 2017, 05:21:01 PM »

If  proper fibre comes to Thanet then I will swap  :fingers: . Broadstairs used to have cable TV back in the 60's  ;)

Stuart
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