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Author Topic: Switched to Talktalk FTTC, constant disconnections.  (Read 8377 times)

Adam86

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Re: Switched to Talktalk FTTC, constant disconnections.
« Reply #15 on: February 28, 2017, 08:41:19 AM »

Yes, more than happy with that sync rate, its a big improvement from their old 3000kbps down 400kbps up that they used to have!

I would definitely agree with you that TalkTalk failed to "push the button" once the physical work was completed.

Just hoping that interleaving on the downstream eventually gets removed and then I'll be happy.  Going to leave it for the full 10 days before putting in a decent router with my spare ECI modem combo.

Cheers
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Dray

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Re: Switched to Talktalk FTTC, constant disconnections.
« Reply #16 on: February 28, 2017, 09:11:54 AM »

The mythical 10 days doesn't exist
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tbailey2

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Re: Switched to Talktalk FTTC, constant disconnections.
« Reply #17 on: February 28, 2017, 09:26:57 AM »

Maybe you also need to let BT know that as they appear to be unaware of the myth:

The checker as of 5 mins ago says:

Quote
For all ADSL and WBC Fibre to the Cabinet (VDSL or G.fast) services, the stable line rate will be determined during the first 10 days of service usage.
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Tony
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Plusnet 80/20 - DSLstats - HG612/TG582n - ECI

Dray

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Re: Switched to Talktalk FTTC, constant disconnections.
« Reply #18 on: February 28, 2017, 11:44:23 AM »

BT already know. They put it in Sin498
Quote
2.2.1 Dynamic Line Management

Dynamic Line Management (DLM) is employed in GEA-FTTC.  DLM constantly manages lines to maintain a target link quality (speed and stability).  It does this for as long as the product exists.

At provision, the line is put on “wide open” VDSL2 line profiles allowing the upstream and downstream line speeds to run at the upper limit of the product option selected.   

On the first day of operation, DLM will intervene if severe instability is detected.  Otherwise, DLM will wait until the day after provision before deciding if it must intervene, provided that the line has been trained up for at least 15 minutes during the preceding day.

If DLM intervenes it will set a profile with a maximum rate and a minimum rate, where the minimum rate is set at approximately half of the maximum rate.  The purpose of the minimum rate is to ensure that the line does not train at a rate which is significantly below the level the line should be able to achieve.  If this happened, then the line is likely to remain at a very low rate until a re-train is forced by the user by powering off the modem.
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tbailey2

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Re: Switched to Talktalk FTTC, constant disconnections.
« Reply #19 on: February 28, 2017, 01:01:09 PM »

So they may but the average punter isn't going to know that Sin498 exists let alone find it to (maybe) read it so this is still a major error on their part and leads to people believing the 10 day wait is true.
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Tony
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Adam86

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Re: Switched to Talktalk FTTC, constant disconnections.
« Reply #20 on: April 03, 2017, 08:40:18 AM »

Just thought I'd give you guys an update on this.

Got my brothers spare unlocked HG612 connected to the line and a decent router as the TalkTalk HG633 was a load of rubbish as expected.

I've now got the line monitored and added to My DSL Web Stats and the username is MontcalmC for anyone who wants to have a look.

Since the connection has gone in interleaving appears to have permamantly being applied and for some reason just over a week ago the sync dropped from approx 38000 and has been on 34999 since so looks to have become banded.  I'm not very good at reading most of these stats but the FEC errors appears to be interesting as every 20 minutes it appears to be in the 40000-50000 range and momentarily drops to around 4500.

Cheers
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WWWombat

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Re: Switched to Talktalk FTTC, constant disconnections.
« Reply #21 on: April 03, 2017, 11:19:01 AM »

but the FEC errors appears to be interesting as every 20 minutes it appears to be in the 40000-50000 range and momentarily drops to around 4500.

I'm not sure I've come across a graph quite like this. Almost metronomic in duration, and patterns to the overlaid "high" and "low" FEC values too...

A quick sample check on the length of those periods:
Yesterday afternoon: "High FEC" for 34 minutes, "Low FEC" for 13, 14, 15 or 18 minutes.
After midnight last night: "High FEC" for 33 minutes, "Low FEC" for 13, 14, 15 or 17 minutes.

Something switched looks to be inducing impulse noise onto the line. Something controlled. Perhaps a water/sewage pump? A heating controller? An air-conditioning controller? A fridge or freezer?

Because the duration is almost identical in the middle of the day compared to overnight, I'm doubting that it is a heating or air-conditioning issue.
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Black Sheep

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Re: Switched to Talktalk FTTC, constant disconnections.
« Reply #22 on: April 03, 2017, 12:20:52 PM »

looking at the graph that Mr Cat has kindly supplied above, your ISP shouldn't have much issue having a REIN case raised with Openreach's REIN helpdesk ................. that is of course, assuming your MPF (Pair of wires) are testing to a certain standard that would reject normal levels of 'Noise' ??

 
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Adam86

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Re: Switched to Talktalk FTTC, constant disconnections.
« Reply #23 on: April 03, 2017, 12:36:01 PM »

I'm not sure I've come across a graph quite like this. Almost metronomic in duration, and patterns to the overlaid "high" and "low" FEC values too...

A quick sample check on the length of those periods:
Yesterday afternoon: "High FEC" for 34 minutes, "Low FEC" for 13, 14, 15 or 18 minutes.
After midnight last night: "High FEC" for 33 minutes, "Low FEC" for 13, 14, 15 or 17 minutes.

Something switched looks to be inducing impulse noise onto the line. Something controlled. Perhaps a water/sewage pump? A heating controller? An air-conditioning controller? A fridge or freezer?

Because the duration is almost identical in the middle of the day compared to overnight, I'm doubting that it is a heating or air-conditioning issue.

Really weird isnt it :-/

With regards to the noise on the line, if it was something in the house, how close would we be talking of for that noise to affect the line, would it be something right next to the line or can it be affected by a much bigger radius? As to be honest there isn't really anything out of the ordinary in the household really.  Her parents recently had a new kitchen fitted so the appliances are all new in there, not that a new appliance couldnt interfere of course. 

The line's cabling runs at the other end of the house to the kitchen and any other appliances I can think of from the top of my head.  Now I must say that the phone wiring in this house is quite funny as I found they have the master socket in the hall way and that has another cable running from it into another socket in the living room where everything is actually plugged in, now that wire actually runs right next to the RCD and mains electric cable that runs into the house so maybe that could have something to do with this?  Theres no power socket nearby but I could probably temporarily plug the modem and router in with an extension lead and see if it makes any difference.  I suppose if this was the problem then I could fix this myself as it is wiring after the master socket so wouldnt be fiddling with any of BT's wiring.
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Black Sheep

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Re: Switched to Talktalk FTTC, constant disconnections.
« Reply #24 on: April 03, 2017, 12:41:30 PM »

Fault noise levels (REIN) can affect circuits hundreds of meters away from the source, I know, I've personally worked on one such event that took 3 days to resolve.

These are certainly not the norm though. However, it is common-place for a source to be within the same terraced row of houses for example.

Before starting down any of these lines, you need to ensure the whole circuit is optimised within the premises. Until then, it's wet finger in the air faulting.  :)
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burakkucat

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Re: Switched to Talktalk FTTC, constant disconnections.
« Reply #25 on: April 03, 2017, 03:43:35 PM »

looking at the graph that Mr Cat has kindly supplied above, . . .

The FEC plot has actually been provided the kitteh friendly WWWombat:D
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Black Sheep

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Re: Switched to Talktalk FTTC, constant disconnections.
« Reply #26 on: April 03, 2017, 03:53:19 PM »

The FEC plot has actually been provided the kitteh friendly WWWombat:D

My apologies to the Wombat ............... I didn't read the thread apart from the last few posts. Time is money ..... an' all that.  ;)
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Adam86

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Re: Switched to Talktalk FTTC, constant disconnections.
« Reply #27 on: April 04, 2017, 02:20:32 PM »

Thanks for the feedback guys, I'll make sure the circuit in the house is best optimised next time I go over.
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WWWombat

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Re: Switched to Talktalk FTTC, constant disconnections.
« Reply #28 on: April 04, 2017, 03:03:31 PM »

Hey, we're all kitteh's together, aren't we?  ^-^

As to be honest there isn't really anything out of the ordinary in the household really.  Her parents recently had a new kitchen fitted so the appliances are all new in there, not that a new appliance couldnt interfere of course. 

In the big picture, I'd probably be trying to work out what could possibly be running for 33 minutes at a time, then stop for 10-20 minutes, 24x7. I'm struggling to think what would work like that.

If there's nothing in the house that works like that, then the source isn't likely to be the house. Turning heating and air-conditioning off, and unplugging the fridge and freezer should quickly decide that.

Beyond that, I'd consider the route back to the cab. Is there a butcher's shop, with a big freezer? Is there a sewage pump to send sewage uphill somewhere?

I guess the old AM radio trick might be helpful too.
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Adam86

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Re: Switched to Talktalk FTTC, constant disconnections.
« Reply #29 on: April 04, 2017, 08:40:38 PM »

On the route to the cab there is a petrol station which is 24 hours so that could be quite likely?

Other than that there isn't anything else I can think of without driving past.
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