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Author Topic: ITU seeks to double video compression  (Read 3629 times)

Weaver

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ITU seeks to double video compression
« on: February 13, 2017, 11:09:57 AM »

See ISPreview -
    http://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2017/02/possible-boost-broadband-itu-seeks-double-video-compression.html

Absolutely superb for someone like me, just need a seriously powerful CPU to be able to keep up if streaming.
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Bowdon

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Re: ITU seeks to double video compression
« Reply #1 on: February 13, 2017, 01:39:48 PM »

I've worked with various video editing software for many years, though I'm no where near an expert. I know since H.265 technology came in it become easier to compress a file to less than half the size of a H.264 file without losing quality.

I've seen a few examples over the last year. A 21 minute file using H.265 at 1080p is around 315MB. The same file using H.264 is 1.4GB.

I've noticed people using H.265 tend to only encode in 1080p or 720p. People still using the H.264 will use 1080p, 720p and 480p.

I think H.265 is within reach of 4K through some manipulations.

I just hope the technology we have can be updated to be able to use H.266 faster than it took devices to catch up to using H265.
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CarlT

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Re: ITU seeks to double video compression
« Reply #2 on: February 13, 2017, 06:10:23 PM »

As always it's about fast enough processors to decode the stuff in real time, however with the advent of GPGPUs and nVidia pushing out some quite tasty mobile chips with the Tegra X2 coming soon hopefully the combination of raw power and the additional instructions to accelerate decoding will mean software and firmware upgrades will suffice by the time the standard is ready.
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Chrysalis

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Re: ITU seeks to double video compression
« Reply #3 on: February 13, 2017, 09:00:58 PM »

Also that media companies can be very slow to adopt new technology.

NBC still uses flash, sky silverlight.  Whilst both those can work with h.265 it shows how often they review and update their streaming platform.

Netflix I expect to be the first to adopt out of the big players.

They also have to consider what benefits the most users, lots of older hardware doesnt accelerate h.265 but does h.264 so if 265 was rolled out they would need some kind of way to detect if older hardware is in use and then fall back to 264.  If they did that of course it also would mean all content would need 2 copies.  So not a simple matter.

Google are favouring their own propriety type solution VP9, which isnt supported by many operating systems regardless of hardware.  I had to install an addon to force h.264 to be used instead for better cpu utilisation.

https://youtube-eng.googleblog.com/2015/04/vp9-faster-better-buffer-free-youtube.html
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CarlT

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Re: ITU seeks to double video compression
« Reply #4 on: February 13, 2017, 10:42:45 PM »

Google are favouring their own propriety type solution VP9, which isnt supported by many operating systems regardless of hardware.

VP9 is open source?
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Chrysalis

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Re: ITU seeks to double video compression
« Reply #5 on: February 13, 2017, 11:29:05 PM »

Seems to be partially open source https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VP9

What I meant by support is acceleration from the GPU, even android phones dont accelerate VP9 (yet).

Windows only accelerates on the latest build of windows 10, wasnt backported to windows 8 and 7.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2017, 11:31:06 PM by Chrysalis »
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Bowdon

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Re: ITU seeks to double video compression
« Reply #6 on: February 14, 2017, 11:10:48 AM »

Yes I had trouble playing back h.265 videos on the tv, even through my dvd usb drive, and that wasnt that old.

Maybe these devices can have a firmware update.

I can understand why google uses VP9, to put that extra barrier there to stop these ripper programs from grabbing everything. Though as you have said, its easy to get around.

A lot of companies still use .flv files. It's possible to convert them to .mp4 files. FLV reminds me a lot of RM (from the Real Player era).
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BigJ

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Re: ITU seeks to double video compression
« Reply #7 on: February 14, 2017, 09:30:55 PM »

The Alliance for Open Media (founding members Amazon, Cisco, Google, Intel Corporation, Microsoft, Mozilla, and Netflix) are working on the new royalty free codec AV1. Still early days it seems though.
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gt94sss2

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Re: ITU seeks to double video compression
« Reply #8 on: July 07, 2020, 01:14:20 AM »

The H.266 standard has now been officially launched and promises a 50% reduction in file size compared to H.265 for the same video quality.

Quote
After devoting several years to its research and standardization, Fraunhofer HHI (together with partners from industry including Apple, Ericsson, Intel, Huawei, Microsoft, Qualcomm, and Sony) is celebrating the release and official adoption of the new global video coding standard H.266/Versatile Video Coding (VVC). This new standard offers improved compression, which reduces data requirements by around 50% of the bit rate relative to the previous standard H.265/High Efficiency Video Coding (HEVC) without compromising visual quality. In other words, H.266/VVC offers faster video transmission for equal perceptual quality. Overall, H.266/VVC provides efficient transmission and storage of all video resolutions from SD to HD up to 4K and 8K, while supporting high dynamic range video and omnidirectional 360° video.
 
Today, compressed video data make up 80% of global Internet traffic. H.266/VVC represents the pinnacle of (at least) four generations of international standards for video coding. The previous standards H.264/Advanced Video Coding (AVC) and H.265/HEVC, which were produced with substantial contributions from Fraunhofer HHI, remain active in more than 10 billion end devices, processing over 90% of the total global volume of video bits. Both previous standards were also recognized by collectively three Emmy Engineering Awards for contributing substantially to the progress of television technology.

Through a reduction of data requirements, H.266/VVC makes video transmission in mobile networks (where data capacity is limited) more efficient. For instance, the previous standard H.265/HEVC requires ca. 10 gigabytes of data to transmit a 90-min UHD video. With this new technology, only 5 gigabytes of data are required to achieve the same quality. Because H.266/VVC was developed with ultra-high-resolution video content in mind, the new standard is particularly beneficial when streaming 4K or 8K videos on a flat screen TV. Furthermore, H.266/VVC is ideal for all types of moving images: from high-resolution 360° video panoramas to screen sharing contents.

“After dedicating almost three years toward this standard, we are proud to have been instrumental in developing H.266/VVC," says Benjamin Bross, head of the Video Coding Systems group at Fraunhofer HHI and editor of the +500-page standard specification of H.266/VVC. “Because of the quantum leap in coding efficiency offered by H.266/VVC, the use of video will increase further worldwide. Moreover, the increased versatility of H.266/VVC makes its use more attractive for a broader range of applications related to the transmission and storage of video.”

"If you consider that Fraunhofer HHI already played a key role in the development of the previous video coding standards H.264/AVC and H.265/HEVC, then we are happy with the fact that more than 50% of the bits on the Internet are generated by a Fraunhofer HHI technology,” adds Dr. Detlev Marpe, head of the Video Coding and Analytics department at Fraunhofer HHI.


https://newsletter.fraunhofer.de/-viewonline2/17386/465/13/14SHcBTt/u8far30f3W/1

Last year, BBC R&D said this would mean 8k video could be streamed with connection speeds of less than 50Mbps.

I guess the FTTC network still has more life in it than many realise.

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Alex Atkin UK

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Re: ITU seeks to double video compression
« Reply #9 on: July 07, 2020, 05:21:32 PM »

There is no way they can use it though with all current hardware using the old codecs.

By the time enough people have compatible hardware, FTTP should be fully rolled out.

It also tends to take forever for actual encoders to reach the maturity where they actually deliver that 50% reductions with no quality loss.  If you just download a few videos off YouTube, you usually find the H264 versions are better quality, more dynamic range and a sharper image.  You might not tell the difference on a phone, but you can on a TV.
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Bowdon

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Re: ITU seeks to double video compression
« Reply #10 on: July 08, 2020, 12:45:29 PM »

There is no way they can use it though with all current hardware using the old codecs.

I agree with this.

Hardly any hardware was upgraded to H.265.

I don't know why hardware companies take ages to send out firmware. Or is the old hardware limited in their capabilities?
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flilot

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Re: ITU seeks to double video compression
« Reply #11 on: July 08, 2020, 06:36:00 PM »

I don't know why hardware companies take ages to send out firmware. Or is the old hardware limited in their capabilities?

Depends what the hardware is, and how it's utilised.  A TV set top box for digital TV for a plucked out of the air example, may just be for all intents an purposes a CPU/RAM/Aerial/Video interface and any codecs run purely in software (in which case a firmware update *may* enable newer codecs to be used, as its a essentially just a software update for that box).

However it is generally preferable for hardware decoding to be used as it is far faster and more resilient, in which case, if support for the specific type of video decoding is not "baked" into the silicon chipset in your box, then you have to throw it away and get new hardware that does support it (as many had to when Freeview switched from DVB-T to DVB-T2, for example). 
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Chrysalis

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Re: ITU seeks to double video compression
« Reply #12 on: August 06, 2020, 12:28:18 PM »

Yeah newer hardware might not handle it.

e.g. if you wonder why OBS is still x264 not 265, it is because whilst compression is much better, the performance required to do the encoding is much higher.  OBS does live encoding which makes this a problem, hence twitch/obs still been x264.

Although I dont know performance impact for decoding which is all that matters on tv's and media players.
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