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Author Topic: FTP problem  (Read 5323 times)

Adminian

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FTP problem
« on: April 23, 2008, 08:39:49 PM »

Hi, can anyone help please.

I run a website ( mysite.orange etc ) and use terrapin ftp to upload my files, my files used to take seconds to upload and i had no problems whatsoever.
Last year i purchased a belkin Modem/Router and i seem to think this is when the problem started, i would try to upload a page and find that it would stop on 6kb, after about 30 seconds the rest of the file would upload. I could find nothing to alter this and as 30 seconds wasn't long thought little of it.

I have now purchased a new computer and the problem has got worse ... a lot worse, when i try to upload a file now it freezes on 8kb for around a minute or more, then it goes to 12kb, 18kb, 24kb etc with at least a minutes wait inbetween, so an 80kb file takes around 12 minutes to upload.

I have searched for answers as to why this is happening as it never used to but can find nothing to explain why, i am wondering if there is a setting somewhere i have missed, has anyone else had this problem?

I am using windows xp home, terrapin version 2.3.2 build 9.

Your help would be much appreciated .... Thanks.
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kitz

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Re: FTP problem
« Reply #1 on: April 23, 2008, 11:09:26 PM »

Your router shouldnt interfere with an ftp client since its outgoing traffic.
Make sure that the ftp client is set to PSV (passive) mode.
Make sure that theres not a  firewall blocking access.

Im afraid Ive never used terrapin so dont really know that much about it.   I think if it was me and I was having a problem with ftp uploads I would also try another client.

I'm not sure which one to recommend though - dont laugh Ive used a cuteftp version which is now about 6 years old and have never bothered changing it cause it was free and it still does the job perfectly for my needs (I do a fair bit of ftp uploading).

Unfort its no longer free, so perhaps someone else could recommend another client to try.  I used to recommend WS_FTP but not sure if that is still free or not either.
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Azzaka

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Re: FTP problem
« Reply #2 on: April 24, 2008, 07:55:49 AM »

There is a free client called FileZilla!. Brilliant little FTP proggy.

And as Kitz has suggested, make sure you use passive mode.
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mr_chris

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Re: FTP problem
« Reply #3 on: April 24, 2008, 12:11:07 PM »

To understand WHY normal FTP doesn't work on some routers...

FTP works by creating a connection out to the server, known as the Control connection. This is on port 21.
Then to receive a file, the server creates a connection back TO the client, on port 20.

Bear in mind the FTP protocol was developed before the WWW, and certainly before people had Internet in their homes, so given all internet connected computers then had public IP addresses, this two way connection setup wasn't an issue.

With the advent of NAT routing for sharing a single public IP address, obviously the connection back to the client wouldn't work, as the router wouldn't know what to do with it.

Two things can get around that:
1. Passive mode (PASV) was developed, which is an addition to the FTP protocol, to allow the client to initiate the connection for a file transfer, rather than the server. Most FTP servers will support PASV mode nowadays.

2. Application Layer Gateway (ALG). Think of this as an interceptor in the router. An ALG is triggered by traffic on a certain port, e.g. for FTP it will detect an outgoing connection on port 21, make a note of which computer initiated it. It will then listen for connections back to the computer from the server and pass them on accordingly, thus making non PASV FTP work behind a NAT router.

Most home routers contain several ALGs to allow various protocols to work.

Not sure why yours isn't working, because most FTP clients will work in PASV by default. Try setting it anyway and see what happens. If not, try one of the other suggestions, like FileZilla (I use this myself, and it's free)

Good luck :)
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Chris

Adminian

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Re: FTP problem
« Reply #4 on: April 24, 2008, 10:30:36 PM »

Hi and thank you for your sugestions

I have tried activating (PASV) which is on the proxy tab of said program, when i do this i can neither upload or download so i guess orange' server does not work that way.

The (ALG) you mention i cannot find anywhere in the routers settings so i assume that this model or make does not support it.

I downloaded and tried Filezilla and cannot get it to connet at all, using the network conection wizard i am told my router/firewall is modifying the port and that the connection has ended. I will have another look when time permits.

I also tried turning the fire wall off tonight (and ended up off line for over an hour) i noticed eventually that in doing so it switched off my Network Address Translation (NAT) and i believe that is why i could not connect.

Not having much luck am i lol, i will have another play on Saturday when i have more time and let you know how i get on however, if you can think of anything else please let me know.

Thank you again for your support
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mr_chris

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Re: FTP problem
« Reply #5 on: April 24, 2008, 11:25:23 PM »

The only thing I can think of now is that it's probably something to do with a software firewall on your computer. Have you got anything like ZoneAlarm, McAfee Personal Firewall, Norton Internet Security, anything like that? If so, try disabling them for a bit, and see what happens. (you're still pretty safe because you have a router, nothing can 'invade' your PC).
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Chris

tnp

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Re: FTP problem
« Reply #6 on: April 25, 2008, 11:37:19 AM »

Just a thought, but sometimes using large packet sizes can cause tehese sorts of 'stop stumble go back and start over' behaviors.

Check TCP packet and windows sizes on the client machine.



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Adminian

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Re: FTP problem
« Reply #7 on: April 25, 2008, 08:52:08 PM »

Mr Chris .... thank you ... your last post nearly solved my problem, or has solved my problem but un-earthed another.

I do not use any other firewall software apart from windows own and prompted by your post i decided to turn it off to see what happened, hey-presto everything worked fine and no problems occured with my uploads.
Now before i make myself look like an idiot i did check under exceptions in windows firewall and Terrapin ftp was listed so as far as i was concerned there wasn't a problem.

Anyway i decided to run a few tests ... i installed Terrapin on another computer and as expected it froze for sometime when i tried to upload a file, i checked it was listed under the exceptions tab and it was, i turned the firewall off and back on and again and again ... hey-presto ... everything worked fine.

I then went back to my main computer and turned it off to see what would happen when i re-started, it was back to its old tricks freezing again, once again i checked it was listed, it was, so i then turned the firewall off and back on again and the program works fine.

I am completely baffled as to what could be causing this but very pleased that with your help the problem has nearly been solved ... many many thanks ... I suppose the next question would be do you have any idea why windows firewall is acting this way?

Thank you again for your support.
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guest

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Re: FTP problem
« Reply #8 on: April 25, 2008, 11:08:05 PM »

Easy enough to tell if it is Windows Firewall.

On the Exceptions tab click the "Add port..." button, then add these two entries -

Name : FTP Control
Port number : 21
Type : TCP

Name : FTP Data
Port number : 20
Type : TCP

That should allow any application to use TCP ports 20 and 21.

Does that help?
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mr_chris

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Re: FTP problem
« Reply #9 on: April 26, 2008, 02:18:02 AM »

Glad I managed to set you on the right lines - dunno why it's not working even though it's listed. Perhaps the rule is only allowing access on the local network - you might need to edit the entry and change the scope to 'Any computer (including those on the Internet)'

Alternatively, try what Rizla suggested, that should allow you to connect at least, if you don't use PASV, but the passive mode ports, which are random, higher numbered port numbers, would probably still be blocked, so that would only be a partial solution.

If you want to delve deeper and find out what's going on, go to the Advanced Tab on the Firewall config, under Security Logging click Settings, and tick the "Log dropped packets" checkbox. Then try to use FTP. You can then open the log (C:\WINDOWS\pfirewall.log by default), and it should hopefully tell you more.

I reckon it's the scope thing though, personally :)
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Chris

Adminian

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Re: FTP problem
« Reply #10 on: April 26, 2008, 05:33:24 PM »

Hi, thank you for your continued support.

Rizla,

I placed both of those settings (ports) in the exceptions box and they had no effect.

Mr chris

The scope setting is already on any comp (inc those on internet).

I set it up to log dropped packets but to be honest the data logged means very little to me, there are a lot of lines of code starting with the date and time .... then the word Drop followed by either ... ICMP, UDP or TCP ... the lines are different lengths ( but the same length for each of the three protocols).
The only ones that seem to contain the information needed are the TCP lines (the longest).

Once again if i turn windows firewall off and back on the program then works fine?

I could of course take this action each time i wish to upload to my site but it would be nice to get to the bottom of this and find out why the blockage is there.


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