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[NewtronStar]

The sync rate is gradually getting lower as the days pass by Actual data rate   29634 (Kbps.) downstream 5889 (Kbps.) upstream SNR Margin 6.3 dB down 6.3 dB up and the usual 12 or so disconnects a day compare that with last ISP provider 39000 (Kbps.) downstream 6400 (Kbps.) upstream.

from this availability image what would my handback threshold be for my line i thought it was 27.6 Mbps 

[Chrysalis]

That handback is a new thing, what does it mean?

I personally consider the low VDSL range A to be the speed to consider a line in need of a review to see if things can be improved, but remember this is the wholesaler, what is important is the estimate vodafone gave you at signup.

[NewtronStar]

Hello Chry nearly sure estimate was 38Mbps and the minimum was 27.6Mbps and tbh I am hoping the sync goes lower than the minimum to get out of this chicken p00 outfit called vodafone connect 

[Dray]

http://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2017/01/bt-wholesale-broadband-checker-adds-downstream-handback-threshold.html

[Chrysalis]

thanks dray will have a read.

[NewtronStar]

Looking at the handback rules it's mentions ADSL but not FTTC to FTTC migrations

Handback Rules:

This deals with performance issues relating to a service that has been in service for less than 1 year and cannot be adequately fixed by Openreach.

If the line has been in service for 90 days or less, the line can be ceased (if the line was a new provision), or reverted back to ADSL (if the line was migrated from ADSL), at no cost to the customer. If the line is older than 90 days but less than 1 year, the line can be ceased (if the line was a new provision), or reverted back to ADSL, (if the line was migrated from ADSL), the only charges that will be raised will be the line rental for the period that the line was active.

The service must have been investigated by Openreach for under-performance since its Service Activation date (i.e. the line will not synchronise at a speed above the 10th Percentile point of sale predicted rate, or the line rate has dropped by more than 25% over a 14 day continuous period).

[displaced]

The HHG2500 VF modem/router is a buggy piece of you-know-what.

I had the exact same issues as NewtronStar but was lucky enough to twist VF's arm enough that I got my PPPoE details and a DLM reset.  Line has been rock-solid with the OR HG612.

VF's customer support is atrocious.  Never did get an answer to why their service was so bad when the exact same line had been perfect for 4 years with BT Infinity.

[NewtronStar]

So you had the same problem as me then, and trying to get the support team to own up and say it's their fault is the most annoying thing I have ever witnessed and a tech2 guy called Robert is the most argumentative & cheeky person I have comes across on a Broadband tech2 support he said he will phone back on Saturday but they are full of carp.

Well you are lucky displaced as the rule is changed to No PPPoE details to be released you would have to break there arm off two get it now.

So I am left with a unstable broadband connection and they don't give a toss

[j0hn]

The important part about handback

Handback Rules:

This deals with performance issues relating to a service that has been in service for less than 1 year and cannot be adequately fixed by Openreach.

If the line has been in service for 90 days or less, the line can be ceased (if the line was a new provision), or reverted back to ADSL (if the line was migrated from ADSL), at no cost to the customer. If the line is older than 90 days but less than 1 year, the line can be ceased (if the line was a new provision), or reverted back to ADSL, (if the line was migrated from ADSL), the only charges that will be raised will be the line rental for the period that the line was active.

Vodafone being the customer. So they could get out of their contract with OpenReach, and have to release you from yours, without penalty.

[burakkucat]

The problem with N*Star's service is not the Openreach circuit (metallic pathway to the cabinet, then fibre optic cable to the head-end exchange) but the Vodafone software running over that Openreach circuit. The "Handback Rules" are irrelevant for the above. 

[NewtronStar]

Hmm they quoted upto 38Mbps the line synced at just over 38900kbps on the first day the sync is now 29181 kbps if I take 25% of 38000 kbps then would need to have a sync rate of 28500 kbps for a duration of 14 days

The service must have been investigated by Openreach for under-performance since its Service Activation date (i.e. the line will not synchronise at a speed above the 10th Percentile point of sale predicted rate, or the line rate has dropped by more than 25% over a 14 day continuous period).

It's all very legal and your average ISP would have a hard time understanding this stuff

[displaced]

Well you are lucky displaced as the rule is changed to No PPPoE details to be released you would have to break there arm off two get it now.

So I am left with a unstable broadband connection and they don't give a toss

Absolutely - I was incredibly lucky, just getting in at the tail-end before the login info ban-hammer came down. 

The mind-boggling thing is that I was running the HG612 for a week or so with the line banded at 34Mbit due to the HHG2500's crapitude.  Their level 2 support agreed that there was a problem and organised an OR visit.  I mentioned that I was using the HG612 and they said "we really don't mind what you use as long as it works" and I agreed to use the HHG2500 for a couple of days whilst they monitored the line.

They were alarmingly inconsistent.  Sadly it seems they've gone consistent in the wrong direction.

If it's any consolation at all, I'm helping in any way I can with people's efforts to extract PPPoE details for other customers.  And I dearly hope that we have some good fortune - annoyingly, the service is actually very good once that HHG2500's out of the equation!

[burakkucat]

We know that the circuit (metallic pathway) is good because --

• Openreach attended, tested, checked and pronounced it to be good (at Vodafone's expense).
• The EE service and before that, the BT Consumer service that you have had on that very same circuit.

[NewtronStar]

Think the line is now banded and have the reached the minimum
Actual data rate 27397 (Kbps.) down  5000 (Kbps.) up 
SNR Margin   7.9 dB   8.1 dB

TBH displaced moved over to VF thinking i'll be able to get the PPPoE details from customers support easily and move back onto the 8800NL, looks like another call to support team to-day I hate this going around in circles can you test it in the master socket are using wireless or ethernet all that carp before they send a ticket to tech2 team to call you back in 48 hours

[Chrysalis]

I am not convinced its just a PPPoE issue, as PPPoE instability has absolutely no affect on DLM, DLM only cares about the actual sync stability.