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Author Topic: Will OR ever swap out ECI Cabinets?  (Read 4937 times)

Bowdon

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Will OR ever swap out ECI Cabinets?
« on: January 19, 2017, 06:13:13 PM »

I was just reading this article;

BT’s Huawei Cabinets Give Better VDSL2 “Fibre Broadband” Speed than ECI

Quote
Anybody familiar with Openreach’s (BT) roll-out of VDSL2 based ‘up to’ 80Mbps Fibre-to-the-Cabinet (FTTC) tech knows that the operator tends to deploy two different types of Street Cabinet hardware, one from Huawei and another from ECI. But a new study suggests that Huawei’s kit is faster.

The use of two different types of cabinet / hardware is to be expected and simply reflects natural diversity in supply (i.e. don’t put all your eggs in one basket), but at the same time we’ve long noticed that ECI hardware on Openreach’s network has tended to run into trouble, while Huawei’s kit seems to suffer fewer hiccups.

For example, ECI kit didn’t have the best time when Openreach was testing Vectoring to remove cross-talk interference from VDSL2 lines (here) and the recent attempt to roll-out of Physical Retransmission ReTX (G.INP) also had plenty of hassle from the ECI side of things.

Similarly we understand that the on-going trial of a 3dB Noise Margin (SNR) may need a bit longer before it’s happy to be deployed with ECI kit, but the official deployment isn’t due to begin until March 2017 and so there’s still time to sort that out. All of the above features can aid performance and the fact that ECI tends to struggle certainly won’t help.

It's obvious that ECI cabinets are falling further and further behind the more we walk forward with technology. Do you guys ever see BT changing ECI cabinets? Either to Hauwei or another company (maybe Nokia)? ECI just doesnt seem to be able to keep up.
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ejs

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Re: Will OR ever swap out ECI Cabinets?
« Reply #1 on: January 19, 2017, 06:33:47 PM »

No, because in a few years' time VDSL2 will be obsoleted by G.fast, and perhaps a few years after that G.fast will be obsoleted by full fibre.

It's a bit like complaining about the older and less good TSTC ADSL2+ equipment at some exchanges. I can't imagine that being replaced by a more modern and better type of ADSL2+ kit.
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j0hn

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Re: Will OR ever swap out ECI Cabinets?
« Reply #2 on: January 19, 2017, 06:45:16 PM »

I can't see that ever happening. It would cost a fortune, and be a logistical nightmare. What on earth would they do with the ECI DSLAM's they removed? Who's gonna pay for all the new Huawei DSLAM's.

I also find the title of that article extremely misleading. It may give better latency, better error correction, more stability. But where does the claim of "better speed" come from. I've never seen a single direct comparison of the 2 DSLAM's. If the ECI performs 10% better than a Huawei then that would more than wipe out any gains G.INP gives the Huawei. ECI cabinets will be getting G.INP eventually anyway. The vectoring argument doesn't wash either, as OpenReach don't deploy it on a large scale.

Hopefully on Tuesday I'll have a direct comparison with my own line. I'm hoping it will be connected to our new Huawei DSLAM, which I will be able to compare with my stats from a few weeks ago with an ECI DSLAM.

I'd confidently say OpenReach won't be deploying any more ECI cabinets. Even existing ECI's which are at capacity are being added to with Huawei's now. There's not the slightest possibility though that OpenReach will swap existing ECI's .
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CarlT

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Re: Will OR ever swap out ECI Cabinets?
« Reply #3 on: January 19, 2017, 08:39:52 PM »

Nope. Next question please?
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Chrysalis

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Re: Will OR ever swap out ECI Cabinets?
« Reply #4 on: January 19, 2017, 10:08:29 PM »

extremely unlikely sadly.

Alot hinges on if they can get a good g.inp rollout.  Setting ECI cabinets to 3db target SNRM is not hard in itself but I expect will be reliant on a working g.inp configuration to give them the confidence to do so.
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jelv

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stevebrass

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Re: Will OR ever swap out ECI Cabinets?
« Reply #6 on: January 20, 2017, 12:33:03 PM »

BT will change the ECI cabinets when it makes commercial to so do.
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j0hn

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Re: Will OR ever swap out ECI Cabinets?
« Reply #7 on: January 20, 2017, 02:59:48 PM »

BT will change the ECI cabinets when it makes commercial to so do.
It will never make commercial sense to do so. Everyone pays the same wether on a Huawei or ECI cabinet. Maybe if they made more profit out of the Huawei cabinets, but they don't. I don't even think it would be a good marketing tactic. Probably 99% of EU's don't know or care about the difference between the 2.

Even the most knowledgeable users wouldn't be able to tell the difference anyway. If I sat you in a room with a PC connected to the internet, without looking at a bunch of stats could you tell what cabinet it was connected to? There's no real noticeable difference in the service.
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stevebrass

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Re: Will OR ever swap out ECI Cabinets?
« Reply #8 on: January 20, 2017, 04:02:40 PM »

It will never make commercial sense to do so. Everyone pays the same wether on a Huawei or ECI cabinet. Maybe if they made more profit out of the Huawei cabinets, but they don't. I don't even think it would be a good marketing tactic. Probably 99% of EU's don't know or care about the difference between the 2.

Even the most knowledgeable users wouldn't be able to tell the difference anyway. If I sat you in a room with a PC connected to the internet, without looking at a bunch of stats could you tell what cabinet it was connected to? There's no real noticeable difference in the service.

I agree - except obviously if an ECI failed/got damaged or the ECI estate as whole become technically deficient. Then it would make commercial sense. But not likely.
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huwwatkins

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Re: Will OR ever swap out ECI Cabinets?
« Reply #9 on: January 20, 2017, 04:25:18 PM »

So if you have an ECI and want to get an Huawei cab its best to just run it over?   ;D
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Bowdon

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Re: Will OR ever swap out ECI Cabinets?
« Reply #10 on: January 20, 2017, 05:18:14 PM »

So if you have an ECI and want to get an Huawei cab its best to just run it over?   ;D

Interesting... *hears car rev* lol.

Hopefully the G.fast node will take away the problems of the individual cabinet.
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rp00

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Re: Will OR ever swap out ECI Cabinets?
« Reply #11 on: January 20, 2017, 11:31:43 PM »

Hopefully on Tuesday I'll have a direct comparison with my own line. I'm hoping it will be connected to our new Huawei DSLAM, which I will be able to compare with my stats from a few weeks ago with an ECI DSLAM.

How did you manage to do this?
There's a newly installed Huawei just a few feet away from "my" ECI.
I'm wondering what's the best way to get my lined moved? Migration to a different ISP? Cease and signup?
Odds of someone running it over are low:)
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j0hn

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Re: Will OR ever swap out ECI Cabinets?
« Reply #12 on: January 21, 2017, 01:31:31 AM »

cease and reprovide. current cab needs to be full to ensure your port is recycled. then need to wait for new cab. failing that order an adsl service inbetween to ensure your line is removed from the cabinet. If you don't do the above OR remotely disconnect you, then simply reconnect you on the same port.

or just wait till the new cabinet goes live and order a 2nd line. confirm it's on huawei then cancel the original line. this wasn't an option for me due to funds and contract restraints. I also know my 2nd pair doesn't perform as well, but not a huge difference.
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Plusnet FTTC 80/20 -  ECI now Huawei cab
retx low @ 3dB target SNRM
Zyxel VMG1312-B10A bridged with 1508 MTU + Asus RT-AC68U running Asuswrt-Merlin

Bowdon

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Re: Will OR ever swap out ECI Cabinets?
« Reply #13 on: January 23, 2017, 02:32:03 PM »

I often think BT price some of their products out of range on purpose to control demand.

If we could double our speeds with 2 FTTC lines I think enough people would pay for it to force BT to expand the cabinets.

I was thinking yesterday how many FTTC connections can either cabinet serve compared to the population using the cabinet?
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ejs

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Re: Will OR ever swap out ECI Cabinets?
« Reply #14 on: January 23, 2017, 04:12:22 PM »

Why can't you double your speed by getting another FTTC line? Obviously it will cost twice as much in total as one line.
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