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[nostos156]

Hi,

Fairly simple question. I'm currently on a HG612 but I only have one and figured I should buy a backup - but I saw buzz about how good these modems are at having higher sync rates and better error correction (which is nice because I have an interleaving of 8 applied to my downstream @ 63Mbps. Without it I sync at 70+. If I can get it removed using this then that's a bonus).

So, what's the difference between them? Different chipset? At least on ebay, the 8324 seems vastly more expensive than the 1312, so it must be lacking something?

baby jumbo frames? G.INP?

And if not that, what about the HG635? I hear that it consistently provides a higher sync rate and noise margin, although no idea if this comes at the cost of errors.

Edit: If wished, I can provide every stat you want if it would help make a recommendation if upgrading the modem would actually improve anything.

[Ronski]

I have been using a ZyXeL VMG8324 B10A for a long time,  on my line download speed is quite a bit better,  but upload is worse.

General concensus is it improves speed but not always.

[ejs]

Interleaving depth of 8 probably indicates G.INP is in use, but G.INP does not usually result in any significant loss of speed. So there is probably some other reason for the loss of speed.

[guest3]

My vmg8324 in bridge mode has always managed higher sync rates than the several others I have tried including billion 8800nl v1, hg612 etc. I do find though for whatever reason v14 proves to give better snrm on us and ds than v15 firmware. Not had any problems to speak of with v14 so have left it on that for months..

[nostos156]

Interleaving depth of 8 probably indicates G.INP is in use, but G.INP does not usually result in any significant loss of speed. So there is probably some other reason for the loss of speed.

Ah yes, it is. Only on the downstream though, and after DLM has thrown me down to 63 sync from 70~. That is why if requested I can post stats you want if it helps to summarise if I can expect any better out of a new box or if I'm 'stuck' where I am, so to speak.

Thanks for the input so far guys. How about errors though, like FEC? I get quite a fair number on the HG612 so if it will likely increase on the ZyXeL that's probably not too good.

[kitz]

I have both a VMG8324 B10A and a VMG1312 B10D.

Double check the extension for the VMG1312. Most VMG1312's on ebay are the B10D.  The B10D's may have ISP f/w on and leave port 7547 open for TR-069.
I picked up one for £10.50 to use as a spare. Mine was a brand new but exZen modem, which I flashed with the standard Zyxel f/w.   



Personally I prefer the VMG8324 as it performs better on my line than both the VMG1312 and the HG612.
The VMG1312 B10D contains a more budget based chipset - see here.

The VMG1312 B10A is older than the VMG1312 B10D which was released in the 2nd half of last year.  Different chips, the B10A supports 3G dongle, whilst the B10D supports 3/4G.  Difference between the 2 should be obvious just by looking at the modem shape.

I currently have some sort of weird line fault going on and Ive been interleaved.  Errors are lower on the VMG8324 than the VMG1312.  Downstream between them is much of a muchness.  Upstream is quite a lot better for the VMG8324. 

These stats are from last Sat when I did a compare. Modem was swapped out at 4pm so you should be able to see the difference on MDWS. (see below)   I have since then put the VMG8324 back on again.


VMG8324

Code: [Select]

adsl info --stats
adsl: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: Showtime
Last Retrain Reason:    0
Last initialization procedure status:   0
Max:    Upstream rate = 29955 Kbps, Downstream rate = 83785 Kbps
Bearer: 0, Upstream rate = 20000 Kbps, Downstream rate = 70189 Kbps

Link Power State:       L0
Mode:                   VDSL2 Annex B
VDSL2 Profile:          Profile 17a
TPS-TC:                 PTM Mode
Trellis:                U:ON /D:ON
Line Status:            No Defect
Training Status:        Showtime
                Down            Up
SNR (dB):        6.1             12.5
Attn(dB):        0.0             0.0
Pwr(dBm):        6.2             6.2

                        VDSL2 framing
                        Bearer 0
MSGc:           18              150
B:              51              236
M:              1               1
T:              64              5
R:              12              16
S:              0.0236          0.3771
L:              21720           5410
D:              1373            1
I:              64              255
N:              64              255


VMG1312

Code: [Select]

adsl info --stats
adsl: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: Showtime
Last Retrain Reason:    8000
Last initialization procedure status:   0
Max:    Upstream rate = 24947 Kbps, Downstream rate = 80401 Kbps
Bearer: 0, Upstream rate = 20000 Kbps, Downstream rate = 70240 Kbps

Link Power State:       L0
Mode:                   VDSL2 Annex B
VDSL2 Profile:          Profile 17a
TPS-TC:                 PTM Mode(0x0)
Trellis:                U:ON /D:ON
Line Status:            No Defect
Training Status:        Showtime
                Down            Up
SNR (dB):        5.0             8.1
Attn(dB):        15.0            0.0
Pwr(dBm):        4.6             4.6

                        VDSL2 framing
                        Bearer 0
MSGc:           18              150
B:              51              236
M:              1               1
T:              64              5
R:              12              16
S:              0.0236          0.3771
L:              21736           5410
D:              1375            1
I:              64              255
N:              64              255

[PhilipD]

Hi Kitz

I have both a VMG8324 B10A and a VMG1312 B10D.

The B10D (if this is the vertical standing one) looks to be made cheaper than the B10A.  The main difference (so reducing costs) is the B10D lacks the addition of a common mode noise filter, whereas the B10A and the VM8x24 do have this filter.

Just wondered what you have done to rule out very local interference issue to you, given the upstream improves with the VM8324 perhaps due to filtering your upstream signal as it leaves your modem via the common mode noise filter (which of course works both ways), which the VMG1312 lacks, letting the noise travel out with the signal.

Have you tried different power supplies and phone leads for example?  The ideal test is to power the modem with a 12 volt battery and have a laptop connected then turn all the power off in your house, then monitor the connection.  If it remains the noise, you know it's something in your house, if it doesn't you know it's not.

I would suggest the B10A is the better modem/router even though it has a lower powered CPU, it will be fast enough for FTTC connections to keep up.

Regards

Phil

[kitz]

Hi Phil, thanks for you input.

Have you tried different power supplies and phone leads for example?

Yes. The modem is located nearby and plugs directly into the SSFP. 
When I had FTTC installed, Openreach relocated the NTE to the PC room, and I no longer have any internal phone wiring as the phones are cordless.  Line sounds fairly clear both using the DECT phones and also tested with an old corded phone.

I have swapped modems/power supplies and modem cable - none of which make any difference.  The VMG8324 always performed better than the HG612 even before the current issue started.  I don't know about the VMG8131 as that was a recent purchase just to rule out it wasn't the VMG8324 and/or its power supply.

The issue is weird - it started after my line went down at exactly 04:45 on the 19th of Oct.  The line was down for about 15 mins and when it came back up, that's when the regular pulsing of the SNR started. Prior to 19th Oct, my SNRm was a straight line and never really deviated by more than about 0.1dB.  - more info here.  Since then Ive gone from ~84Mbps attainable down to 70Mb sync.

Sometimes it will clear if I power down the modem and leave it off for a while, but not always.  If I do this, then it only clears for a few hours before the oscillations start again.  At times the connection can be very laggy and throughput low, this is obviously due to the large amount of errors. DLM has intervened but its only really masking the issue.  FEC rate is still quite high.  I quite often see buffering now when watching IPTV.

Its odd that it will sometimes clear after a power down, but it will return.   The way the SNR flaps around mades me recall issues with certain line cards on some BT MSANs about 8yrs ago - azzaka knows more about the make/model - I cant remember now as I was on LLU at that time.   
 
This may not be related but my neighbour also had a broadband fault starting exactly the same week. Her speeds started deteriotating until she had no sync at all on the 15th of Nov.  She doesnt know what it was other than Openreach said it was something between the home and the exchange.

Ive not raised a fault fully expecting them to come back with sync speed is still in the acceptable range. Plus Im also stressed out with a few other things going on and not sure if I could cope with the hastle of trying to deal with PN & Openreach    

[Sheepie]

I do not know if I had a faulty VMG1312-B10D or not but it was not happy one little bit, really strange oscillations on the D1 band (can be seen on MDWS from 11th Nov to Dec 6th, User=Sheepie). Caused HIGH interleave to be applied both Up and Down and banded to 44mbps before I replaced it with openreach ECI modem, and since then interleaving has reduced a lot and banding also reduced. 

The VMG1312-B10D was bought new and latest firmware applied.....

Note: since 6th Dec since I cannot monitor ECI modem, the MDWS is monitoring my ADSL2+ line instead, so please ignore anything after 6th Dec

[guest3]

Its possible to get stats from the eci if you are prepared to do a bit of modding. Neither stats software  work with it but you can get your stats at command level and from the gui.

You can get more info here http://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php/topic,15918.0.html  I have an unlocked one I was going to sell on....

[Sheepie]

I am going to leave the ECI unmodded, so I always have something "clean" to fall back on.

Just got a used HG612 off ebay, so that is going to be unlocked and used to replace the ECI once the DLM has put me back on fastpath or G.INP.

I might try and test the VMG1312 on my ADSL2+ line, since it was the D1 band on vDSL that was looking strange it might do the same thing on the ADSL2+ tones.

I reckon I've just been unlucky, original modem (Billion 8800N) that had been stable for 18months with hardly any resyncs and 80/20 connection all of a sudden started to show latency spikes (attached image) which started straight after a powercut. Then I replaced that with a VMG1312 that fixed the latency spikes but DLM threw a wobbler and to make matters worse I was migrated to GEA and had a DLM reset in the mix as well.

[burakkucat]

I might try and test the VMG1312 on my ADSL2+ line, since it was the D1 band on vDSL that was looking strange it might do the same thing on the ADSL2+ tones.

I am happily using a VMG1312-B10D on a circuit provisioned as G.992.5 (ADSL2+) from the exchange based MSAN, with the VMG1312-B10D configured only to "talk" G.992.3 (ADSL2) due to the length of the line.

I am prepared to say that it is the best modem/router that I have ever used on this line . . . 

Devices used over the years --

• ZyXEL VMG1312-B10D (current)
• TP-Link Archer VR900 (AC1900)
• Huawei EchoLife HG622
• Huawei EchoLife HG610
• Huawei EchoLife HG612
• 2Wire 2701HGV-C
• 2Wire 2700HG-B (Perseus)
• 2Wire 2700HG-B (Ares)
• 2Wire 1800HG
• 2Wire 2700HGV
• Netgear DG834Gv5
• Huawei SmartAX MT882

[Sheepie]

OK so I got the VM1312-B10D connected to ADSL2+ line, and monitoring to MDWS, thankfully it's TalkTalk LLU and they are happy to disable DLM for me, and it will  stay fastpath no matter what.

When I had the same modem on the VDSL line it looked ok except for D1 snrm, which did not seem to make any difference to aggregated snrm. And even though low ES and no loss of sync the DLM still decided it was not happy with something, I wish I knew what it was having a fit with. Since I see others using the same modem on MDWS without the D1 weirdness I thought maybe my modem was faulty.......