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Author Topic: Decrease of Sync & Tones  (Read 4860 times)

Starman

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Decrease of Sync & Tones
« on: October 29, 2016, 09:58:36 AM »

Morning all - had a random re-sync yesterday after nearly 100 days of stable sync. Unfortunately when I regained connection I seem to have lost approx 20Mb of downstream sync speed.

Looking though MDWS I had a massive spike of SES shortly before the re-sync, but I had been running at a stable 3dB DS. My amount of available tones also has decreased. I can't see any noticeable increase in ES in the 18 hour period before my manual re-sync this morning so I am going to assume this is related to a new cross talker?


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Starman

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Re: Decrease of Sync & Tones
« Reply #1 on: October 29, 2016, 09:59:25 AM »

Added more attachments due to limit of 3.
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j0hn

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Re: Decrease of Sync & Tones
« Reply #2 on: October 29, 2016, 06:11:19 PM »

Your Hlog has changed quite considerably, with a much sharper drop. Something physical on the line appears to have changed, though what I'm nowhere near knowledgeable enough to know. Perhaps Bcat or someone with similar knowledge could look at your Hlog and advise more.
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Chrysalis

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Re: Decrease of Sync & Tones
« Reply #3 on: October 29, 2016, 06:25:10 PM »

I would report as a fault, assuming openreach have the same fault rules in place that 20mbit drop should qualify as a GEA fault. 
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burakkucat

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Re: Decrease of Sync & Tones
« Reply #4 on: October 29, 2016, 08:20:58 PM »

I felt a little tingle in my whiskers that prompted me to call up S*man's data via MDWS . . .

Taking a broad look at the historic Hlog plots we can see that a difference is visible either side of this morning's resynchronisation event at 0822 hours. I attach copies of the relevant plots from 0800 hours and 0900 hours, below.

However after a more critical examination, we can see that there is not that much of a difference -- but a difference, indeed, is present. In the 0800 hours Hlog plot the high frequency end of the curve is just before tone 4000 with a value of -62 dB. In the 0900 hours plot the high frequency end of the curve remains just before tone 4000 but with a value of -59.8 dB.

Show me both of those plots in isolation and I would declare that "I see no indicated problem of the metallic pathway" for either. What is making that approximate 2.2 dB change appear to be more significant is that MDWS is using a different scale for the Y-axis of each plot.

Show me both of those plots and tell me that they are of the same circuit but from different times -- which is this case -- I would declare that "the latter plot, that of 0900 hours, is the better of the two". Huh?  ???  Very crudely put, the closer the curve to the X-axis, the "better the condition" of the circuit from which the data has been obtained.

We must remember that although we regularly see Hlog plots as quadrant one curves (be it in published papers, in JDSU or Exfo documentation, from DSLstats or HG612_stats via MDWS or those curves that I plot when examining a circuit), Hlog plots are actually quadrant four curves. The Y-axis runs up/down the left hand side and the X-axis runs across the top, not the bottom.
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burakkucat

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Re: Decrease of Sync & Tones
« Reply #5 on: October 29, 2016, 08:38:43 PM »

Now let us turn our attention to the QLN plots from either side of the resynchronisation event at 0822 hours this morning. I attach copies of the relevant plots from 0800 hours and 0900 hours, below.

We see that it appears the overall balance of the circuit has been disturbed. For those two plots, the former (from 0800 hours) is the "better" of the two. Neither of the two plots are that "good"; in the latter (from 0900 hours) we can see that the average noise floor has risen.

However there is nothing in either the Hlog or QLN plots that would be a justification for an Openreach technician's visit.

What might be a possible cause for the change in the QLN plot? Perhaps some work at the PCP, which resulted in the movement of the jumpers that link the D- & E-side cables to the respective tie cables, has occurred?  :-\
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Starman

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Re: Decrease of Sync & Tones
« Reply #6 on: October 30, 2016, 05:35:59 PM »

Weird my SNRM seems to have return along with my tones although no re-sync has taken place. How odd.
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burakkucat

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Re: Decrease of Sync & Tones
« Reply #7 on: October 30, 2016, 06:22:49 PM »

Yes, I see.

Your DS SNR has suddenly gained an extra 4 dB overhead and all plots seem to have reverted back to their prior states (prior to the 0822 hours resynchronisation event, yesterday) -- except the QLN, which still shows an elevated noise floor.

I think this is going to have to be filed under the heading of "one of life's little mysteries".  :-\
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Chrysalis

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Re: Decrease of Sync & Tones
« Reply #8 on: October 30, 2016, 09:57:27 PM »

It needs more time to watch and analyse, for example if its a disturber they may have simply turned off their modem, and as such it may come back when they turn on again.
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kitz

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Re: Decrease of Sync & Tones
« Reply #9 on: October 31, 2016, 11:46:24 AM »

Late to the party...  but QLN in the second graph shows signs of what could be crosstalk at tone 300+ in D1
D2 shows what looks like definite crosstalk on D2 lower tones up to about tone 1400.

When I compare your BPT SNR to the QLN I see what I call a bowl/dish effect on the corresponding tones, which usually is a sure sign of crosstalk.

Finally it should be said that hlog and qln are a snapshot in time.
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NewtronStar

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Re: Decrease of Sync & Tones
« Reply #10 on: October 31, 2016, 09:14:50 PM »

The characteristics in the SNRM graph has all the hallmarks of a crosstalker have been watching my own SNRM crosstalker for well over many months now and then for 3 weeks the crosstalker disappeared and thought they must have got a lift & shift to avoid my crosstalk they came back and turned on their modem.

What I have found with crosstalk it's better not to resync your modem to gain back those Mbps you lost and just leave it in the hands of the DSLAM if the SNRM is to low it will automatically do a resync on your line but keep an eye on errored seconds.
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Starman

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Re: Decrease of Sync & Tones
« Reply #11 on: November 04, 2016, 08:28:39 AM »

I contacted PN to advise that I had a stuck IP Profile as my sync is now 58Mb but my download is stuck at approx 4.5Mb.

They've reported I have a line fault not completely sure they are related to my slow speed but might be the cause of the line trouble to start with -
Quote
**internal**

Fault Type:NSY
Test Results: FAULT - Battery Contact
Fault Ref:TR000000
Estimated Response Time: 08/11/16 23:59:59
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Starman

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Re: Decrease of Sync & Tones
« Reply #12 on: November 05, 2016, 11:26:14 AM »

Unexpectedly I received a phone call from OR technician advising he was going to repair my line today I was surprised as its a Saturday. After an hour and a few weird style landline phone rings he called me again to advised he'd traced the problem to a section but needed a bucket to access a D pole and I believe the only pole my line is on is the DP o/s my address. This will be the 2nd fault at the pole in the last 2 years :)
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burakkucat

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Re: Decrease of Sync & Tones
« Reply #13 on: November 05, 2016, 03:39:01 PM »

. . . he'd traced the problem to a section but needed a bucket to access a D pole . . .

My interpretation is that a hydraulic platform will be required to access the pole. A pole that has been classified as dangerous -- there is a prominently displayed label bearing an upper-case D attached to it.
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Starman

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Re: Decrease of Sync & Tones
« Reply #14 on: November 05, 2016, 03:46:32 PM »

That would be correct we use the same terminology on the board.
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