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Author Topic: Erratic line behaviour after remote resync  (Read 36380 times)

Chrysalis

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Re: Erratic line behaviour after remote resync
« Reply #30 on: December 03, 2016, 05:46:36 PM »

Well my line I think I wont hold out until g.inp time, it seems the modem has hit its fit stage with 95 days uptime (no longer responding to lan requests).

Regarding your line kitz I see two things.

1 - you seem to have a new crosstalker who turns their modem on or off, or electrical interference on and off.
2 - A secondary issue causing rapid minor fluctuations. No idea what that may be.

#1 issue is also affecting my line for about 7 weeks.  Interestingly for my self tho when the crosstalk temporarily disappeared my attainable went higher than what it was 2 months ago.

--edit-- my modem is fine actually, was issue on my laptop with locked stats process.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2016, 02:07:05 PM by Chrysalis »
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kitz

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Re: Erratic line behaviour after remote resync
« Reply #31 on: December 03, 2016, 06:34:21 PM »

I dont see any new crosstalkers.  Since it first started though, Ive been DLM'd twice.  Ive have also done lots of manual reboots to see if I can clear it.  If you're looking at the SNRm, then any straight jumps is usually me trying to bring my SNR back up to stop errors...... Or me losing sync, like I just did whilst typing this.  Thats not the first time today that my line has resync'd that was not my doing. 

Scratch that, I dont think I really lost sync.  Saw something on MDWS that said I hadnt uploaded, and DSLstats was flashing like it usually does when Ive lost sync, but I think it may have just been that data wasnt sent to MDWS on that occasion.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2016, 06:41:38 PM by kitz »
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DMZ

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Re: Erratic line behaviour after remote resync
« Reply #32 on: December 05, 2016, 05:16:18 AM »

Hey guys,

I've came back home this grand very early (Lovely night shifts) morning. To pleasantly see...

Nothing has really changed since. I did a few manual reboots as I was bored and couldn't sleep. My downstream interleave level did drop from 1877 to 1863 . My upstream interleave level stayed at 1.

Sync is at 64/18.

Max attainable for downstream: 90 is a far cry for me. Probably due to the downstream interleave.
Max attainable for upstream: 18. The upload has been flaky for me since this issue.

Noise margin for downstream: 6 (Spikes from 6-6.5 sometimes 7)
Noise margin for upstream: 6 (I have seen it go to 6.1! Maybe a good sign?) I won't be surprised if it dropped back down to 4.2 again. I just expect it.

I'm seriously under the impression that my ECI cabinet is borked in some way.

^^^ That's my ahem..."Professional" opinion.  :cool:
« Last Edit: December 05, 2016, 05:24:03 AM by DMZ »
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kitz

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Re: Erratic line behaviour after remote resync
« Reply #33 on: December 05, 2016, 09:46:19 PM »

Well Im afraid the VMG1312 didn't last very long on my line.  The underlying issue was still there so it proved a point that it wasnt my equipment.   For some reason it looked like I kept losing sync approx every hour or so.  Whilst I did drop sync a few times, that hourly thing may have been more to do with logging and failing to upload to MDWS.   However that doesnt detract from the fact that I genuinely did lose sync several times that day.

Looking at my stats, errors were much higher with the VMG1312 despite the lower sync.   I've always maintained that for my line the VMG8324 gives me far better speeds and a lower line rate, so this fact may not apply to all lines.  The VMG1312 is still a bargain price router that probably performs better than some others out there.  Its one of those suck it and see what works best for your line situations.

Anyhow after yet another resync I'd had enough.  I left the line disconnected for a couple of hours because I was now on about my 8th sync of the day... and put the VMG8324 back on...  and low and behold the vast majority of the spiking had disappeared.

Now over the past few months I have disconnected and I have powered down the modem for a period of time without any effect.
One thing that does spring to mind.. can some of you guys recall about ummm 7 yrs ago when there was a bout of faulty line cards on some MSANs which would cause some lines to flap. (Azzaka will definitely remember) 
I'm wondering if theres been some (software) config changes to the line cards (why else would they disconnect for 15mins at 4am) that is making some lines flap.   No proof - just another possible theory.   The line is still spiking, but its less than 0.5dB and no where near as bad as what its been like for the past few weeks.  Upstream is still messy.
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kitz

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Re: Erratic line behaviour after remote resync
« Reply #34 on: December 05, 2016, 09:49:46 PM »

@ DMZ

Ignore max attainable if the line is interleaved.  RS overheads affect the max attainable speed, so the figures are unreliable.

Just out of curiousity if you can, try leaving the modem disconnected for a few hours.
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burakkucat

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Re: Erratic line behaviour after remote resync
« Reply #35 on: December 05, 2016, 11:17:59 PM »

Powering down the CPE, disconnecting it from the line and leaving it in that state overnight is something that I will recommend as a "last resort". Allowing the port on the line-card to "relax" does seem to help . . . in certain situations. I know that N*Star will agree.  :)
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DMZ

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Re: Erratic line behaviour after remote resync
« Reply #36 on: December 05, 2016, 11:23:55 PM »

Hey kitz,
That's a better result. Great to hear.

I did reboot my router again in the afternoon. The SNR is now 6+ for both, no longer spiking much nor has the upstream dropped to 4 again.

My upload returned to 20, max attainable is now 21+

My download seems banded at 64 still, max attainable now 90.

I know I shouldn't focus on the max attainables like you said. But my stats look better for me so far.

According to my HG633 stats:

Upstream Interleave Depth: 1

Downstream Interleave Depth: 1865

I think my downstream is in fact banded since my upload has returned. Looks like I will need to wait maybe.

If anymore issues arise I will turn it off overnight. Thanks for the tip.


It looks like we both have improvements today just having issues with opposite streams. My download, your upload and interleaved.  ;D
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Chrysalis

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Re: Erratic line behaviour after remote resync
« Reply #37 on: December 09, 2016, 03:36:51 PM »

As I have been diagnosing issues on my modem monitoring (hg612 stats crashing due to experimental security config) I have caught my line red handed with its attainable rate shot up (currently 74mbit), is tempting to do a resync but I think when it drops again to 66-667 that would be pushing the line stability wise.
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DMZ

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Re: Erratic line behaviour after remote resync
« Reply #38 on: December 09, 2016, 07:27:05 PM »

Hey everyone,  :)

@Chrysalis I've given into temptation in the past and 99% of the time it results in; "I think I made it worse." Territory.

I've been tempted to keep rebooting my router "In hope." I can get off interleaving. But I've left it be. As DLM works when it wants to from my understanding.

So far it's been up 4 days due to automatic firmware being downloaded and rebooting my router.

My problematic upstream has settled at exactly 6dB with an occasional swing to the lowest I've seen at 5.8dB, highest 6.1dB. Downstream is fine as usual.

I think I should have left everything alone when it first appeared (Low upstream SNR.) as everything was still stable on fastpath. I did restart, reboot and swap routers around. I'm probably at the state I'm in due to my own faffing around.

And saying that before and after it was always stable, I rarely ever have disconnections. I guess I'm lucky to have a good line even with all weirdness recently.

My line length is only 6.6; It's quite short. It's only up the street and around the corner from me, I can follow my line directly to the DSLAM.  ::)
« Last Edit: December 09, 2016, 07:31:50 PM by DMZ »
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atkinsong

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Re: Erratic line behaviour after remote resync
« Reply #39 on: December 09, 2016, 07:51:57 PM »

Powering down the CPE, disconnecting it from the line and leaving it in that state overnight is something that I will recommend as a "last resort". Allowing the port on the line-card to "relax" does seem to help . . . in certain situations. I know that N*Star will agree.  :)

Being a retired HW/Sytems Engineer I have always been very sceptical of this theory. However a few months ago totally out of the blue one Saturday morning around 10 ish my upload snr began wildly fluctuating resulting in resynch with upload down to 1 to 2 Mbps (usual 11 to 12 mbps solid). A manual reboot would resynch at the usual rate for a few mins before again wildly fluctuating before resynching at the low value. This behaviour persisted with my usual Draytek 2760, an HG612, and a HH5A, throughout Sat and Sun. I went to bed on the Sunday night resigned to taking on BTs CS the following morning, so switched off the router pending a fresh start before making the call. Well, the problem completely cleared overnight with the router powered off and has not returned in the last 4 months. So I think I am now a convert! ECI cab by the way.
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burakkucat

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Re: Erratic line behaviour after remote resync
« Reply #40 on: December 09, 2016, 08:21:29 PM »

So I think I am now a convert!

The situation must have been just right.  :D

Quote
ECI cab by the way.

Not the best but better than nothing . . .  :(
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DMZ

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Re: Erratic line behaviour after remote resync
« Reply #41 on: December 09, 2016, 11:47:49 PM »

Back to the low to mid 5s on my upstream. I feel it will drop to the 4s again. It's fluctuating. Still no audible noise on the landline.

What's the correct procedure to the overnight power off? I assume just turn off the router's power button and turn off the mains?

I don't know if I should wait out DLM as I'm still interleaved...Choices.  :P

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kitz

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Re: Erratic line behaviour after remote resync
« Reply #42 on: December 10, 2016, 12:40:23 AM »

My was only it temp fix that lasted about half a day before it started playing up again.   At least I know its not the VMG8324.

I just powered mine down using the off switch on the back.  Then I unplugged it from the mains and pulled out the modem cable from the master socket.
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burakkucat

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Re: Erratic line behaviour after remote resync
« Reply #43 on: December 10, 2016, 01:01:16 AM »

Hmm . . . I've debated whether or not to mention the following . . .  :-\

We know that the DLM process does not take any note of a modem's "dying gasp" but the MSAN most certainly does.

As the "power off overnight" technique was conceived in an attempt to clear "oddities" of the circuit's behaviour, it is recommended that the best practice is followed for the shut-down. So, as Kitz has mentioned, power off the modem and disconnect the patch lead connecting the modem to the external line.

For the "best" "dying gasp", just remove the PSU from the mains socket. The smoothing capacitors in the PSU will allow the low voltage to decay slowy and, thus, give a slightly longer "dying gasp". (It may only be a few ms but as a certain supermarket's slogan: "Every Little Helps".)
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DMZ

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Re: Erratic line behaviour after remote resync
« Reply #44 on: December 10, 2016, 01:08:56 AM »

Oh dear kitz I was hoping it would have helped out more. Mine lasted just under 4 days before it started again.

Thanks guys for getting back to me anyhow,
My HG633 supplied by Talktalk is an all in one router/modem. I assume that process still applies.

I will do this soon and thanks again.  :)

« Last Edit: December 10, 2016, 01:11:18 AM by DMZ »
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