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Author Topic: HG612 - No DSL Light Or Connection  (Read 17120 times)

rustybob

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Re: HG612 - No DSL Light Or Connection
« Reply #60 on: October 09, 2016, 09:24:31 AM »

Quote
Quote from: rustybob on October 08, 2016, 10:39:32 PM

    Not really sure what that means? But, if you're referring to my wiring, I've had a quick look in my outside box and there's a few wires coming in from the drop cable but only two connected which look like Orange and White. The cable going out of the box is made up of two twisted pairs. The first pair is solid orange and white/orange, the second solid blue and white/blue. The solid orange connects to the drop cable orange and the white/blue connects to the drop cable blue.

    I've then traced these to the master socket and the orange cable is connected to B and the white/blue connected to A. There's also an extension from the mastersocket which uses terminals 2 and 5. Terminal 2 has and orange cable and terminal 5 and white/blue cable.

    This was all installed by someone my ISP sent around a year ago as I had quite a few connection problems. Since then there's been no problems

Quote
This sounds like a "split pair" to me - using wires from different pairs, you lose the benefits of the twisted pair wiring, so it will be prone to pick up interference. They should have used the solid blue and white/blue wires, both for the connection going to the A/B terminals on the back of the master socket, and for the extension wiring.

Hmm... I'm sure it was a 'proper' engineer who did the work. Surely they they would have done it right!

I can change them over if needed - looks like a 5 minute job (from what I've read, the blue and white/blue are the inner pair and they are the one I should use, the orange and orange/white are the outer pair and they would remain unconnected)

If I'm doing this from the outside box, does it matter which goes to which? Currently, the white wire from the drop cable goes to the white/blue twisted pair cable which in turn goes to connection A in the master socket, then 5 on the extension. Can I simply swop the existing orange wire, which goes to the orange drop wire cable etc... with the currently unused blue twisted pair cable? Would that mean everything is then right - I can easily swop more if needed?
« Last Edit: October 09, 2016, 09:42:24 AM by rustybob »
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Dray

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Re: HG612 - No DSL Light Or Connection
« Reply #61 on: October 09, 2016, 10:13:08 AM »

Well you could, unfortunately you're not allowed to mess with the wiring before the master socket as it belongs to Openreach
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rustybob

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Re: HG612 - No DSL Light Or Connection
« Reply #62 on: October 09, 2016, 10:19:40 AM »

Ouch.... does that mean it's time to call an engineer. Guess I need to be a little careful then explaining how I know it's wrong!

Am I allowed to look inside the back of my master socket - could always say I was adding an extension (if that's allowed?) and notice the wiring.

Could this possibly explain why the 612 isn't working?
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Dray

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Re: HG612 - No DSL Light Or Connection
« Reply #63 on: October 09, 2016, 10:31:42 AM »

Yes, the master socket is the demarcation point between Openreach wiring and your extension wiring.

It wouldn't explain it if the incoming wire is connected to A and B on the master, unless the HG612 is configured to use the outer pair on the RJ11 cable, assuming there are 2 pairs.
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rustybob

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Re: HG612 - No DSL Light Or Connection
« Reply #64 on: October 09, 2016, 10:34:51 AM »

As the 612 was locked before I had it, I would think it's configured to whatever modems use by default, so inner?

I'll give my ISP a ring and see what they say.
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Dray

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Re: HG612 - No DSL Light Or Connection
« Reply #65 on: October 09, 2016, 10:40:47 AM »

Actually, burakkucat mentioned the Telnet command to use on the HG612 to see the configuration of the phone line pair.

The command is xdslcmd profile --show
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rustybob

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Re: HG612 - No DSL Light Or Connection
« Reply #66 on: October 09, 2016, 10:44:19 AM »

Just need to sort a few things then I'll give it a go.
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ejs

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Re: HG612 - No DSL Light Or Connection
« Reply #67 on: October 09, 2016, 11:36:09 AM »

The inner/outer pair setting refers to which pins of the modem's RJ11 socket to use. Many sockets and cables will only have the centre (inner) two pins present anyway.

The split pair issue does not explain why the HG612 is not working.
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rustybob

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Re: HG612 - No DSL Light Or Connection
« Reply #68 on: October 09, 2016, 11:58:37 AM »

Quote
The inner/outer pair setting refers to which pins of the modem's RJ11 socket to use. Many sockets and cables will only have the centre (inner) two pins present anyway.

Yep.... my RJ11, from Tandy, which I believe as ADSLNation, has just the two centre pins.

Hopefully a productive morning though - engineer is on their way and so is another HG612. Managed to grab one off ebay for less than the first one I got so hopefully it will give some answers as to what's going on?

I've also completed the telnet query and the existing 612 is set to inner (pic enclosed)

Once again, thanks for all the help

On a side note, are wiring mistakes like this common? My ISP simply agreed it was wrong and we went from there. I sort of expected getting questioned quite a lot and maybe even an element of them not believing what I was telling them  / thinking that I'd got it wrong.  :-[
« Last Edit: October 09, 2016, 01:23:36 PM by rustybob »
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rustybob

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Re: HG612 - No DSL Light Or Connection
« Reply #69 on: October 11, 2016, 11:47:11 AM »

So, the engineer's been this morning and the wiring is now swopped. I watched him do most of the work and it looks like, in the main outside box, the incoming wires of white and orange have been used. He's then replaced all the cable which runs from the outside box to my master socket. I actually thought this was fairly new but he said it was worth doing and would only take 10 minutes. I asked what he was using and was told CW1724? To me, this looks almost the same as what was already there  ???

Inside the main outside box he's connected the incoming orange cable to the mainly blue CW1724 cable and the incoming white cable to the mainly white with a bit of blue CW1724 cable. He was mumbling something to himself whilst doing this and didn't sound too impressed?

Inside the master socket he's connected the blue CW1724 cable to point B and the white/blue to point A. Inside the master socket there are two sets of connections labelled A & B and he's used the one on the part of the master socket which is permanently fastened to the wall (the bit that I can't see unless I remove two screws inside the master socket). Apparently the other A & B connections are for some type of extension? I also mentioned my pending move to fibre and he said it would be worthwhile 'upgrading' the master socket ready for the change which he did.

He then ran a few tests and, before connecting the phone extension, asked if I could test the broadband and all worked OK. He then connected the extension and ran some more tests and confirmed everything was OK. When doing it, I had a quick look at some of the Speedtouch info and, from memory, here's the pre and post values (these are only approximate):-

Pre wiring change:

Bandwidth up/down 480/1050
Line Attenuation 41.5/68.5
SN Margin 7/9

Post change, with no phone extension:

500/1550
41.5/67
8/6

Post change with phone extension connected (which is what I have now with around 1 hrs uptime):

475/1219
41.5/68.5
8/9.5

FEC errors 0/0
CRC errors 2/7
HEC errors 2/4

I've posted the errors for my current set up as I'm sure they were much higher pre the wiring change?

The engineer didn't really comment on the above but said it may be worth changing the cabling to the phone extension, which is something I would need to do. Quickly looking at this cabling, it appears to run for around 15 meters, through the garage, and has a connection box within a few meters of the master socket. From the master socket to the connection box there's black cable which looks almost like the CW1724 - if I had to guess I would say this is the same cable that originally ran from the outside box to the master socket. After the connection box, there's some quite thin, flat white cable. This looks like the cable you get from most DIY shops when you buy a pre-made extension.

Looking on the internet, it's quite easy to get CW1724 and I'm wondering if I should replace all the phone extension cable with this? Given the above 'stats' and my pending move to fibre, would it be worth it?

With regard to the HG612, it still shows no DSL connection  :no:. I'm hoping the replacement arrives in the next few days!

EDIT: Here's the error stats with 2 and half hrs uptime:

FEC errors 0/0
CRC errors 2/18
HEC errors 2/18

They are definitely way lower than I had before  :clap:

Stats after 5 and half hrs uptime:

FEC errors 0/0
CRC errors 2/46
HEC errors 0/34 (The HEC errors for 'up' have gone down form 2 to 0?)
« Last Edit: October 11, 2016, 04:10:13 PM by rustybob »
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roseway

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Re: HG612 - No DSL Light Or Connection
« Reply #70 on: October 11, 2016, 04:41:09 PM »

Are you getting the error stats from the GUI? If so, we should have told you that the GUI data is mixed up. The correct information is what you get from the telnet interface with the command "xdslcmd info --stats". If you use one of the monitoring programs DSLstats or HG612_stats these will report the correct values.
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  Eric

rustybob

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Re: HG612 - No DSL Light Or Connection
« Reply #71 on: October 11, 2016, 05:24:12 PM »

Thanks roseway, but I'm still using the Speedtouch 585.

I'm not very good at this but, based on what I've tried, that command doesn't seem to work on this router. I've had a quick did round in the telnet commands and there's loads of options so it may take some time to find this.

EDIT: Couldn't find it on telnet so just downloaded RouterStats which shows the same error figures as the GUI?
« Last Edit: October 11, 2016, 06:00:21 PM by rustybob »
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rustybob

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Re: HG612 - No DSL Light Or Connection
« Reply #72 on: October 15, 2016, 11:26:04 AM »

Just wanted to add a quick thank you for everyone's help / input and a quick update following receipt of the second HG612.

It looks like the original was faulty. Haven't unlocked the second unit yet but, on power up with the RJ11 connected, the green DSL light flashes and within a few seconds I have a constant green light so hopefully, all good from here  :fingers:

With regard to the original I'm guessing that even when I switch to fibre it still won't work  :no:
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roseway

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Re: HG612 - No DSL Light Or Connection
« Reply #73 on: October 15, 2016, 11:34:10 AM »

That's good, and I'm sure you're right on the last point.
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  Eric

burakkucat

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Re: HG612 - No DSL Light Or Connection
« Reply #74 on: October 15, 2016, 05:07:07 PM »

Haven't unlocked the second unit yet but, on power up with the RJ11 connected, the green DSL light flashes and within a few seconds I have a constant green light so hopefully, all good from here  :fingers:

That is exactly what I was expecting to happen. A HG612 in its default, locked, state will obtain synchronism when connected to any circuit which is provisioned in either G.992.1, G.992.3, G.992.5 or G.993.2 mode.
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