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Author Topic: "Pick up a spade" - Tom Mockridge  (Read 3750 times)

gt94sss2

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Re: "Pick up a spade" - Tom Mockridge
« Reply #15 on: September 03, 2016, 04:20:05 PM »

I understand that its expensive to put in fibre. But I've never understood who is setting the price. Who are BT/OR paying for it to be so expensive?

Its not the materials/equipment (where BT are indeed in a position to negotiate good prices) that makes installing FTTP so expensive but the amount of manpower needed.
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Chrysalis

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Re: "Pick up a spade" - Tom Mockridge
« Reply #16 on: September 03, 2016, 04:33:45 PM »

Its probably a combination of two things.

1 - They simply are not very efficient, as proven by the cornwall rollout where their costs per meter are many multiples of what other providers achieved overseas.
2 - A hyping up of the cost so they can probably claim more subsidies etc. for any rollouts.

A urban only rollout would be way cheaper than the quoted figures.
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Weaver

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Re: "Pick up a spade" - Tom Mockridge
« Reply #17 on: September 03, 2016, 04:56:48 PM »

Perhaps needs to be hived off to a large specialist subcontractor who does nothing but. The government needs to audit its detailed implementation, to make sure we're not being ripped off.
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kitz

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Re: "Pick up a spade" - Tom Mockridge
« Reply #18 on: September 03, 2016, 10:33:28 PM »

Quote
Perhaps needs to be hived off to a large specialist subcontractor who does nothing but.

Not sure about that.   Subcontracting doesn't always work out and all it ends up doing is lining someone else's pocket.
The thing I have against subcontracting is quite often the 'real men' who do the digging or whatever get paid peanuts and no job guarantee.  These workers are less likely to take pride in their work.

Take for eg the subcontracting to Kelly/MJQuinn. Seriously do you breathe a sigh of relief if an Openreach engineer turns up rather than a contractor?   How many times with FTTC installs did OR end up having to send out their own guys to fix mistakes by the contractors?

Subcontracting is cheap primarily due how much is paid to the worker, nor have to worry about permanent contracts or pensions etc.
One of the plus points for me about BT is that they provide real apprenticeships and not use people as cheap labour , then lay them off when they arent getting the gov subsidy.   I personally know several young people who despite being hard working, gets kicked out of a job with a pathetic excuse as the term of apprenticeship draws to a close.   Then a few weeks later the company is recruiting more cheap labour.  Its exceedingly hard for many youngsters these days to enter into a decent job.

 /rant.
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Chrysalis

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Re: "Pick up a spade" - Tom Mockridge
« Reply #19 on: September 03, 2016, 10:44:18 PM »

I agree with kitz, sadly as evidenced by recent projects like the NHS PFI and the DWP outsourcing the work programme, these schemes seem only intent on making someone rich using public funds, sadly there is corruption in governments we have.  Someone no doubt will be getting very rich from the hugely expensive overpriced HS2 project as well.

The only way I agree with state funding is when none of it is contracted out, so no leakage of money into private hands.

If it was me considering funding a new infrastructure, the likely plan would be to build the network, employ everyone directly for the job and then lease it out.  With the option of selling it at a later date.
« Last Edit: September 03, 2016, 10:47:16 PM by Chrysalis »
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Weaver

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Re: "Pick up a spade" - Tom Mockridge
« Reply #20 on: September 04, 2016, 04:47:54 AM »

@kitz - I hear you, Kitz. Good point, couldn't agree more. The most important word in my comment was intended to be the word ‘specialist’, rather than ‘subcontractor’ which as you say is undesireable, on reflection. A specialist team within BT would fit the bill, with people who do trenching and duct-wrangling all the time and people who are experts at handling fibre, which I believe is quite a skill. If these people do it all the time, then they might get faster and more efficient at it, given good management and provided they make sure to retain the best staff members.
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stevebrass

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Re: "Pick up a spade" - Tom Mockridge
« Reply #21 on: September 04, 2016, 09:44:43 AM »

Lots of valid points here about undesirable business practices with which I agree.

My point of view is that we should separate out the provision of the physical ducting from anything that gets put inside it.
Once built the private sector can compete to use it - analogous to selling radio bandwidth.

Given this approach, we would need to

decide where the ducting is to go
decide who should do it (including considerations of quality of employment for staff)
decide how to fund it

The Govt should own this trunking.
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Weaver

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Re: "Pick up a spade" - Tom Mockridge
« Reply #22 on: September 04, 2016, 11:24:34 AM »

@stevebrass :- good plan
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WWWombat

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Re: "Pick up a spade" - Tom Mockridge
« Reply #23 on: September 06, 2016, 12:38:44 PM »

Uh oh. Liberty are about to buy F1, and add it to a stable including the Eurosport and Discovery TV channels.

Are VM about to be slated for the amount of money they're spending on sport rather than on digging implements?
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CarlT

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Re: "Pick up a spade" - Tom Mockridge
« Reply #24 on: September 07, 2016, 10:56:56 AM »

Given it's not them spending the money and they are continuing to invest heavily both in passing new premises and upgrading existing infrastructure I doubt it.

VM continue to spend money like water passing new premises here, funds already allocated.
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