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Author Topic: One line out of three goes down - why?  (Read 4794 times)

Weaver

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One line out of three goes down - why?
« on: August 30, 2016, 01:59:19 PM »

Today one of my three lines went down, for around five minutes, then again very shortly afterwards for under one minute. The other two lines were unaffected.

My question - I suppose I never thought about this before - since the three are all in the same bundle, why might one go down and not the others? Four minutes isn't just a tiny blip, and a burst of noise from somewhere would presumably affect all lines equally given that they are adjacent. I have the feeling that this is a very daft question. But I still can't think of an exact plausible reason.

Single MSAN in the exchange gone temporarily bad? Maintenance - human working in the exchange? A human doing something at the ISP?
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Weaver

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Re: One line out of three goes down - why?
« Reply #1 on: August 30, 2016, 02:09:21 PM »

21CN improvement ? :- Another point, when the line went bad then came back up the first time, the BRAS rate (ADSL2) went straight down from something like 2.3 Mbps to 1.6 Mbps. It took over an hour before I spotted the event (four automatic emails warning me about the outage), so I turned the modem off and straight back on again (with only a ten second off-time) and hurrah the bras rate went straight back up to be very slightly higher than the original level. What an improvement from the 20CN days, as last year it would have taken ages, days even, for the rate-limited speed to go back up! Goodbye to the ridiculous software-imposed delays, it seems.
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burakkucat

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Re: One line out of three goes down - why?
« Reply #2 on: August 30, 2016, 03:50:27 PM »

Single MSAN in the exchange gone temporarily bad? Maintenance - human working in the exchange? A human doing something at the ISP?

My three tentative answers to the three questions posed, above, are: Unlikely. Quite possibly. Unlikely.

Without any other information being available, I'll speculate on a "Frames Engineer" working on the Broadford MDF or HDF.
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Weaver

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Re: One line out of three goes down - why?
« Reply #3 on: August 30, 2016, 04:00:46 PM »

Agreed. Can't think of too much else that sounds plausible. More of that solder or some other conductor dropped down where it shouldn't be, as happened back in the spring.

If it were AA staff then I'd expect plain packet loss or routing badness, and on all three lines, and in no case could my modem of course know anything about it.
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Weaver

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Re: One line out of three goes down - why?
« Reply #4 on: September 02, 2016, 12:27:22 AM »

Could be that my joke about the piece of solder was possibly more true than I imagined, I don't know:

On line #3:

BT Test xDSL Copper Test:Pass Openreach network fault found.Pass Openreach network fault found. T051:FAULT - Battery Contact

- Again. Possibly just like last spring:
    http://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php/topic,16672.msg307527.html

I've sent AA a Tweet, hope they pick it up in the morning. If not, I'll get Mrs Weaver to email support or SMS them, they much prefer email as they can bind a ticket ID number to it more easily, I suspect.
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Weaver

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Re: One line out of three goes down - why?
« Reply #5 on: September 02, 2016, 12:48:15 AM »

On the Andrews & Arnold CQM monitoring graphs, I had noticed a number of bursts several minutes long during which there were high latency readings showing, average around ~400 ms, but peaking far higher. This was only on the one line out of three, which didn't look at all right. These bursts were several times a day. Tonight I noticed more of the same, and got suspicious, so I observed the basic modem status, which looked reasonable, SNR not brilliant, but sync rate normal and no ES iirc. Then I started a “copper line test”, which came back with the error text mentioned earlier.
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Weaver

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Re: One line out of three goes down - why?
« Reply #6 on: September 02, 2016, 05:46:17 AM »

Correction: Actually, last January line #3 was the one damaged, and it was line #1 that was the victim of loose bits of solder or some such. As for line #3, back then a length of armoured cable was supposed to be replaced:
 
    http://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php/topic,16672.msg309599.html#msg309599

BT don't tend to bury the cable adequately where it's vulnerable, unless you make enough of a fuss. And for most of its length it isn't even buried at all, just lying by the roadside. Mind you, given that it's bare rock in many places that would sometimes be a challenge.
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Weaver

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Re: One line out of three goes down - why?
« Reply #7 on: September 02, 2016, 05:55:07 AM »

Just to be on the safe side, I tested the other two lines, as line #1 was showing a tiny, minuscule amount of unexplained packet loss every once in a while.

And guess what: line #1 is a copper line test failure too! :-

“BT Test xDSL Copper Test:Pass Openreach network fault found.Pass Openreach network fault found. T051:FAULT - Battery Contact”

So here we go again, back to December. The last line of the three tests fine and looks normal.
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Weaver

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Re: One line out of three goes down - why?
« Reply #8 on: September 02, 2016, 11:17:43 AM »

Reported both lines:

Today 08:47:04      Track PSTN Fault 5-7-110545081760 Warning Message: 3306 The line has tested OK. If you wish to proceed further you need to book an appointment   bt
Today 08:47:04      Track PSTN Fault 5-7-110545081760 Estimated Response Time: 2016-09-03T23:59:59   bt
Today 08:47:04      Track PSTN Fault 5-7-110545081760 Status: Open - Associating Info   bt
Today 08:46:59      Track PSTN Fault 5-7-110545081760 Informational Message: 4068 Notification only - Main fault location changed   bt
Today 08:46:59      Track PSTN Fault 5-7-110545081760 Estimated Response Time: 2016-09-03T23:59:59   bt
Today 08:46:59      Track PSTN Fault 5-7-110545081760 Status: Open - Associating Info   bt
Today 08:45:27      Track PSTN Fault 5-7-110545081760 Informational Message: 4040 Notification only - Estimated Response Time.   bt
Today 08:45:27      Track PSTN Fault 5-7-110545081760 Informational Message: 3100 Trouble Report Accepted   bt
Today 08:45:27      Track PSTN Fault 5-7-110545081760 Estimated Response Time: 2016-09-03T23:59:59   bt
Today 08:45:27      Track PSTN Fault 5-7-110545081760 Status: Open - New   bt
Today 08:45:16      Track PSTN Fault 5-7-110545081760 Message Informational 9323 The asset care level 2.5 will be applied rather than the specified service level.   bt
Today 08:45:16      Track PSTN Fault 5-7-110545081760 Message Informational 3241 Notification Only - Trouble Report Creation Request is Pending   bt
Today 08:44:24      WLR3Test NSY dys00556app04:315924483: Fail FAULT - Battery Contact ServiceLevel:2.5, MainFaultLocation:LN, FaultReportAdvised:Y, AppointmentRequired:N, LineStability:, NetworkStability:, StabilityStatement:   Shaun@a
Today 08:39:28      WLR3Test WLR3_CIDT_Test dys00556dat01:32965188: Fail FAULT - Battery Contact ServiceLevel:2.5, MainFaultLocation:LN, FaultReportAdvised:Y, AppointmentRequired:N, LineStability:, NetworkStability:, StabilityStatement:
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Weaver

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Re: One line out of three goes down - why?
« Reply #9 on: September 02, 2016, 11:21:48 AM »

> The asset care level 2.5 will be applied rather than the specified service level.   bt

Wonder what that might mean?

"Levels" came up in another thread, where we were discussing “Enhanced Care”. Any idea what level 2.5 is? I'm paying for enhanced care on one of the two faulty lines, and not on the other.
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gt94sss2

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Re: One line out of three goes down - why?
« Reply #10 on: September 02, 2016, 01:34:34 PM »

Care Level 2.5 was introduced in 2014: http://www.hiline.co.uk/care-level

As your battery fault is a PSTN issue not a broadband issue, I am not sure if the “Enhanced Care” you are paying for is involved..
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Weaver

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Re: One line out of three goes down - why?
« Reply #11 on: September 02, 2016, 02:28:31 PM »

> am not sure if the “Enhanced Care” you are paying for is involved..
Oh heck. It certainly is mentioned in that report that BTOR are thinking of the fault type as being  under the PSTN heading, but it's only my internet that it's affecting. After all, don't even have any POTS, at all. No voice service, AA don't really do POTS, especially nowadays when they're keen to move to naked DSL. I hope BT will do the right thing though, or AA will strong-arm them. It’s all AA’s responsibility, no buck-passing, as I pay my line rental to AA, and I need my copper and/or the exchange fixed in order to get my Internet fixed, obviously. So I wouldn't be happy for BTOr to refuse to turn out to fix within 20 hours (or whatever) just because they claim that everything physical is a PSTN fault. AA had better have bought the right thing from BTxx.

See also
    http://aa.net.uk/broadband-care.html

We're discussing this in another thread too, ironically:
    http://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php/topic,18220.msg329710.html#msg329710

I probably jinxed myself ;D
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Weaver

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Re: One line out of three goes down - why?
« Reply #12 on: September 08, 2016, 01:05:13 AM »

This just seems to have either fizzled out, or it was some temporary thing caused by BT doing some work, or forty things. The report from BT to AA just says something like "confirm fixed" but with no mention of a callout. Perhaps it was resolved remotely even. Or they just knew it was going to resolve itself.

Line #1 has minuscule amounts of dripping blood (i.e. indications of packet loss) showing seemingly randomly every hour or so. This is so tiny, but it still doesn't look right as the other two lines are not showing the same pattern. This might be a warning of trouble ahead, from experience of history. I doubt AA could do much about it, and it might be a (understandable) job getting them to invest in it, when they have more important things to do.
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Weaver

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Re: One line out of three goes down - why?
« Reply #13 on: September 08, 2016, 01:10:46 AM »

Logs from AA and BT. Note: the user cwcc@a is me.
--
Yesterday 22:32:28   Yesterday 22:33:43 BT Test xDSL Copper Test:Pass Standalone sub test passed successfully.Pass Copper Line Test Successful DS01:Line Test OK   cwcc@a
5 Sep 17:10:11   5 Sep 17:10:13   Wait customer confirms fault closed PSTN Fault - NSY   Shaun@a
2 Sep 17:06:01   5 Sep 17:10:11   Wait for supplier to confirm fault cleared PSTN Fault - NSY   Shaun@a
2 Sep 17:05:57   5 Sep 17:10:08   Track fault and update customer PSTN Fault - NSY   Shaun@a
5 Sep 08:47:18      Track PSTN Fault 5-7-110545081760 Informational Message: 3302 Fault is Cancelled and Closed: Timeout awaiting for CP's response   bt
5 Sep 08:47:18      Track PSTN Fault 5-7-110545081760 Estimated Response Time: 2016-09-03T23:59:59   bt
5 Sep 08:47:18      Track PSTN Fault 5-7-110545081760 Status: Closed - Cancelled   bt
4 Sep 08:47:01      Track PSTN Fault 5-7-110545081760 Informational Message: 3231 Notification Only - Fault has been awaiting for CP's response for 48 hours   bt
4 Sep 08:47:01      Track PSTN Fault 5-7-110545081760 Estimated Response Time: 2016-09-03T23:59:59   bt
4 Sep 08:47:01      Track PSTN Fault 5-7-110545081760 Status: Open - Associating Info   bt
2 Sep 08:45:06   2 Sep 17:06:01   Wait for supplier to confirm fault cleared PSTN Fault - NSY   Shaun@a
2 Sep 08:45:06   2 Sep 17:05:57   Track fault and update customer PSTN Fault - NSY   Shaun@a
2 Sep 17:05:12      WLR3Test WLR3_CIDT_Test dys00556app05:31185271: Pass Line Test OK. Dial tone OK ServiceLevel:2.5, MainFaultLocation:OK, FaultReportAdvised:N, AppointmentRequired:N, LineStability:Stable, NetworkStability:Stable, StabilityStatement:Stable - no adverse line test history. CP may request an Engineer visit to investigate, test and demonstrate with the EU. Routine test & fault data available at Customer Diagnostic Tool on INFORMe under MIS>Artisan>CDT. If no fault is found clear RWT and apply Time Related Charges.   Shaun@a
2 Sep 10:29:37   2 Sep 10:29:45   BT Test xDSL Status Check:Pass Standalone sub test passed successfully.Pass OK. Circuit In Sync
BRAS=2286kb/s FTR=1817kb/s MSR=2272kb/s ServOpt=1 I/L=I
A SERVICE OPTION CHANGE ORDER IS IN PROGRESS ON THIS LINE
Up Sync=519kb/s LoopLoss=42.7dB SNR=6.2dB ErrSec=0 HECErr=0 Cells=0
Down Sync=2592kb/s LoopLoss=65.2dB SNR=1.6dB ErrSec=7 HECErr=N/A Cells=0   cwcc@a
2 Sep 08:47:04      Track PSTN Fault 5-7-110545081760 Warning Message: 3306 The line has tested OK. If you wish to proceed further you need to book an appointment   bt
2 Sep 08:47:04      Track PSTN Fault 5-7-110545081760 Estimated Response Time: 2016-09-03T23:59:59   bt
2 Sep 08:47:04      Track PSTN Fault 5-7-110545081760 Status: Open - Associating Info   bt
2 Sep 08:46:59      Track PSTN Fault 5-7-110545081760 Informational Message: 4068 Notification only - Main fault location changed   bt
2 Sep 08:46:59      Track PSTN Fault 5-7-110545081760 Estimated Response Time: 2016-09-03T23:59:59   bt
2 Sep 08:46:59      Track PSTN Fault 5-7-110545081760 Status: Open - Associating Info   bt
2 Sep 08:45:27      Track PSTN Fault 5-7-110545081760 Informational Message: 4040 Notification only - Estimated Response Time.   bt
2 Sep 08:45:27      Track PSTN Fault 5-7-110545081760 Informational Message: 3100 Trouble Report Accepted   bt
2 Sep 08:45:27      Track PSTN Fault 5-7-110545081760 Estimated Response Time: 2016-09-03T23:59:59   bt
2 Sep 08:45:27      Track PSTN Fault 5-7-110545081760 Status: Open - New   bt
2 Sep 08:45:16      Track PSTN Fault 5-7-110545081760 Message Informational 9323 The asset care level 2.5 will be applied rather than the specified service level.   bt
2 Sep 08:45:16      Track PSTN Fault 5-7-110545081760 Message Informational 3241 Notification Only - Trouble Report Creation Request is Pending   bt
2 Sep 08:44:24      WLR3Test NSY dys00556app04:315924483: Fail FAULT - Battery Contact ServiceLevel:2.5, MainFaultLocation:LN, FaultReportAdvised:Y, AppointmentRequired:N, LineStability:, NetworkStability:, StabilityStatement:   Shaun@a
2 Sep 08:39:28      WLR3Test WLR3_CIDT_Test dys00556dat01:32965188: Fail FAULT - Battery Contact ServiceLevel:2.5, MainFaultLocation:LN, FaultReportAdvised:Y, AppointmentRequired:N, LineStability:, NetworkStability:, StabilityStatement:   Shaun@a
2 Sep 05:34:47   2 Sep 05:34:58   BT Test xDSL Status Check:Pass Standalone sub test passed successfully.Pass OK. Circuit In Sync
BRAS=2286kb/s FTR=1817kb/s MSR=2272kb/s ServOpt=1 I/L=I
A SERVICE OPTION CHANGE ORDER IS IN PROGRESS ON THIS LINE
Up Sync=519kb/s LoopLoss=42.7dB SNR=6.1dB ErrSec=0 HECErr=0 Cells=0
Down Sync=2592kb/s LoopLoss=65.2dB SNR=1.5dB ErrSec=0 HECErr=N/A Cells=0   cwcc@a
2 Sep 05:27:26   2 Sep 05:28:19   BT Test xDSL Copper Test:Pass Openreach network fault found.Pass Openreach network fault found. T051:FAULT - Battery Contact
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