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[licquorice]

 

[broadstairs]

@Black Sheep I don't doubt you are saying what you believe to be the truth, what I was saying is that we can only report what we are told by equally adamant OR employees. I am quite prepared to accept what you say but if we are told by others something different it WILL raise doubts as they are often as sincere as your good self. This is nothing personal, but until we see the BT OR rule book all of this discussion is academic.

Personally I don't see why BT OR cannot clear this up with an authorised account of what ISPs can and cannot do or request and under what conditions, forgive me if this is already in the public domain but I and I think a number here are not aware if it is. It really gets my goat  that we have these discussions as I'm sure it does yours, because if this was more transparent it would be good for all of us and take the wind out of a lot of sails.

Stuart

[licquorice]

I very much suspect that what the rule book says and what happens on the odd occasion are not necessarily the same thing. I think one thing is clear, only Openreach can perform the reset, the muddy bit is whether they will sometimes carry out a reset at the request of an ISP operative rather than an Openreach field engineer.

[Black Sheep]

I would concur with licq's statement above, Stuart. I fear we may never know ??

[NewtronStar]

If Sky has breached the Broadband regulator rules set by (Ofcom) they could be in a bit of a muddle  as no ISP should have an advantage over others when it comes down to OpenReach infrastructure if Sky has issued DLM resets for VDSL customers then this is serious

[broadstairs]

Stuart. I fear we may never know ??

I do agree....

Stuart

[skyeci]

To be fair to sky who I have been with for yonks I do recall pro fibre support have always said dlm reset can only be done by an engineer. I was told this several times when my pair swap was going on.....

[maniac886]

I can't see any situation where G.INP would not be activated again on your line since the ISP transfer other than the new ISP modem or it's firmware is not compatible with G.INP on Huawei cabinets

I have the HG612 flashed with the latest version of firmware , guess I just have to wait a little longer!

[j0hn]

there's no way sky can perform dlm reset on fibre. I was on sky fibre at my previous address, and needed an OR engineer to perform dlm reset.

pretty sure like black sheep says the engineers are getting confused with adsl. OpenReach product documents even mention the lack of ability for ISPs to perform dlm resets

[gazaai]

Well my product has now changed to 76mb package, although the attainable rate was very wrong it stated 81000 then resynced with 62950 but this is without G.INP and fast path.

Once G.INP is activated I expect around 66-68mb

[Black Sheep]

there's no way sky can perform dlm reset on fibre. I was on sky fibre at my previous address, and needed an OR engineer to perform dlm reset.

pretty sure like black sheep says the engineers are getting confused with adsl. OpenReach product documents even mention the lack of ability for ISPs to perform dlm resets

DLM is a intended as a 'Hands off' system. Engineers are specifically told on each and every job, do not perform a DLM reset unless a fault has been found and repaired.
I probably get 2/3 jobs a month that will state 'Noise on phoneline has been repaired, but BB speeds still poor'. One can see for the WHOOSH data that a network engineer will have attended and repaired the attenuation issue (HR), and that a simple reset is all that's required.

Now, I'm not saying this is the right or wrong way to go about things, I'm merely adding further fuel to the debate that ISP's do not and have never had, the ability to perform FTTC DLM resets. Even it would seem from what I see in my bubble, requests from the ISP still weave their way to an engineer to double-check the circuit is up to par before a reset is carried out.

The DLM reset system is monitored for abuse, even our DCoE advisors don't like doing them usually asking why we can't do them ourselves ....... usually down to a mobile signal black-spot etc.

[Chrysalis]

There is obviously a difference of opinion here between our own Black Sheep and what I and perhaps others have been told by their OR engineers who visited and there is nothing we can do here to resolve that. The guy who visited me was adamant that one ISP (in his case SKY) had done DLM resets in the past where perhaps it was inappropriate and caused him problems because the reset masked the issue and left him with no errors, he was also adamant that other ISPs could do resets but some may either deny this or be reluctant to either do it or admit it.

Now this is a matter for the OR guys to sort internally and there is nothing we can do or say to change that. I'm sure that BS and the others are quite sure in their beliefs and I am quite prepared to believe that ISPs cannot actually DO the reset but may be able to REQUEST it, no one here knows and no one here can confirm or deny what the OR guys believe is happening because we are not in the front line.

It may be that somewhere down the line something will come out which clears this up but right now all of us users can only assert what we are told by various OR employees who may or may not have got it right.

Stuart

a reset if anything would actually increase errors, as a reset line is wide open, not banded (assuming full reset or new install) and no interleaving.  A line which is currently managed by DLM will be more stable and that is what can mask problems.

Your engineer I guess has been trained that way or has misunderstood how it works, no idea which.  Or he may even have just been fobbing you off with random excuses.

For what its worth the only engineer who I trust face to face is my install engineer, everything he told me has either matched what has been confirmed on here or by any openreach statements or is at least believable, other engineers have told me stuff that I know is rubbish the moment it comes out their mouth like the guy who told me, my speed estimate is the speed at my cabinet and then it declines further from there,  sadly some engineers seem to be in defensive mode in where they think its their job to make up stuff to explain why work isnt going to be carried out, instead of the truth which is the openreach support level on this product is bare bones, and they are only required to check for voice sin compliance.

[roswellgrey]

re G.INP reactivation ...

Before I moved ISP (on 40/10 product) , G.INP was enabled on my line.
3 weeks ago I moved ISP, and at the same time changed product to 80/20.
With the same modem in use at my end, on the day of changeover G.INP turned off and it has remained off.

[William Grimsley]

do not perform a DLM reset unless a fault has been found and repaired.

Interesting, I think because Glen knew me so well he just did it anyway.

[kitz]

The guy who visited me was adamant that one ISP (in his case SKY) had done DLM resets in the past where perhaps it was inappropriate and caused him problems because the reset masked the issue and left him with no errors, he was also adamant that other ISPs could do resets but some may either deny this or be reluctant to either do it or admit it.

That sounds more like he was talking about an LLU ADSL line.   Sky have their own LLU DLM for ADSL2+ which they can change themselves. 
It is the only explanation why the OR engineer would say it masked the errors.  OR engineers have no control over Skys LLU DLM.


This isn't the case with VDSL though as DLM is controlled by Openreach and can only be reset by Openreach. 

The Openreach NGA DLM can be automatically 'reset' by a change of product. A change of product includes moving between an ISP that uses speed profile and one that uses standard profile and vice versa.

However that said, I suspect there may be 2 types of NGA DLM reset. 
 - The one done by OR engineers which take the account back to the Open profile.   
 - The one automatically done by a product change.

The later one does not always appear to be a full reset.  Whilst it may clear things like G.INP/Interleaving.. it does not appear to remove any banding which may have been previously applied to the line.
 
Ive discussed this in more depth in another thread when I first made this observation...  and its why I originally started another thread asking for those who appear to be stuck with a banded line as I wanted to see stats.  I was hoping to take it further with someone at Openreach, but things have changed since I started that and its not anything I envisage taking up in the near future as Im afraid its had to go on the priority stack.