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Author Topic: Can G.INP and RS Error Correction Coexist  (Read 4041 times)

ejs

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Re: Can G.INP and RS Error Correction Coexist
« Reply #15 on: July 31, 2016, 01:07:29 PM »

You appear to have misunderstood what I said, and/or I did not explain it very well.

The RS overhead has already been subtracted from both the max attainable net data rate, and the actual net data rate. You do not subtract the RS overhead from the attainable to get to the actual.

The max attainable rate is an estimation of what your line might have achieved had it trained with no speed cap and a target SNRM of 6 dB, probably. But you've got a 40 Mb speed cap as indicated by the speed being exactly 40Mb (sometimes it's a few kbps under) and the SNRM being 7.8 rather than closer to 6.

From the framing parameters, 138 data octets and 8 redundancy octets, that's an overhead of 5.8%, if I've done the calculation correctly, it might be right for M=1. You can determine the actual percentage used by the RS redundancy data from the framing parameters.

You are also not considering the coding gain from the RS coding, which is effectively boosting the SNR. So you may well actually be benefiting from the RS coding, if the effect of the coding gain is greater than the amount of bandwidth used to carry the RS redundancy data. Or at least you might do if your line weren't capped at 40 Mb.

RS coding is not necessarily there solely to fix errors, it may well be there to optimize the amount of bandwidth, if configured for optimal coding gain rather than to provide a particular level of error protection.

Also, as far as I know, the DLM will not always activate G.INP for any particular line.

Edit: And no, it's not G.INP nor RS coding that's responsible for the IP Profile. You'd have pretty much the same IP Profile if your line connected at 40 Mb with no G.INP and no RS coding.
« Last Edit: July 31, 2016, 01:24:13 PM by ejs »
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Interceptor121

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Re: Can G.INP and RS Error Correction Coexist
« Reply #16 on: July 31, 2016, 01:48:53 PM »

43400 is the max speed with error correction off
Error correction must have a payload it is possible that the way this is dealt with is to apply banding and then include all sorts lf possible error correction in the bandwidth allowed but if there were no errors at all it would go to the max
Ultimately the difference is 1.5 mbps in my case and interleave depth that was previously 4 has now become 16
This is not a matetial difference but looks like the set of retransmission parameters and banding are not totally independent as if once capping is applied higher levels of error correction get included by default
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ejs

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Re: Can G.INP and RS Error Correction Coexist
« Reply #17 on: July 31, 2016, 03:22:46 PM »

The max attainable net data rate is nothing to do with error correction being off. It's an estimation by the modem based on the current conditions (SNRM).

Again, you are not considering the coding gain. The RS coding will not necessarily cause a reduction in the net data rate. The overhead of the RS redundancy data will reduce the net data rate, but not necessarily by more than the coding gain increases the rate.

DSL systems are not designed for "no errors". They operate so that the error rate does not exceed a certain value, in the case of VDSL2, to not exceed 1 bit error in 107 bits. You will not necessarily get the maximum amount of usable bandwidth by having no error correction.

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NewtronStar

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Re: Can G.INP and RS Error Correction Coexist
« Reply #18 on: July 31, 2016, 03:54:50 PM »

ejs could work out why my IP profile is much lower than the current sync rate current IP profile from BT is 36.81 and the sync rate is 39960 Kbps now when I use this calculation 36810/39960 *100 = 92.11%

yet when I use speedofme the throughput shows as 38.21 Mbps which = 95.6% I have a feeling the BT speed test to get IP profile is incorrect.

« Last Edit: July 31, 2016, 04:03:36 PM by NewtronStar »
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Interceptor121

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Re: Can G.INP and RS Error Correction Coexist
« Reply #19 on: July 31, 2016, 07:18:10 PM »

ejs could work out why my IP profile is much lower than the current sync rate current IP profile from BT is 36.81 and the sync rate is 39960 Kbps now when I use this calculation 36810/39960 *100 = 92.11%

yet when I use speedofme the throughput shows as 38.21 Mbps which = 95.6% I have a feeling the BT speed test to get IP profile is incorrect.
Your line probably does not have G.INP and you have the 8% characteristic of traditional on-going error correction and interleave?

The speedof me site giving results higher than your sync rate seems a bit optimistic
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ejs

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Re: Can G.INP and RS Error Correction Coexist
« Reply #20 on: July 31, 2016, 07:49:57 PM »

ejs could work out why my IP profile is much lower than the current sync rate current IP profile from BT is 36.81 and the sync rate is 39960 Kbps now when I use this calculation 36810/39960 *100 = 92.11%

I could? Well, that's news to me. Please let me know how I did it.

@Interceptor121
There seems to be no point in me continuing to reply to you. I'd just be repeating myself.
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Interceptor121

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Re: Can G.INP and RS Error Correction Coexist
« Reply #21 on: July 31, 2016, 08:30:47 PM »

I could? Well, that's news to me. Please let me know how I did it.

@Interceptor121
There seems to be no point in me continuing to reply to you. I'd just be repeating myself.

I am happy that the max rate has nothing to do with the error correction as it is a theoretical figure
However throughput has all to do with overheads so the effective speed does increase as RS correction is reduced. It looks like my line has Retransmissions Low and Interleave Low but also looks like it is banded
What annoys me is that DLM did not apply correction and G.INP without banding it also limited the speed to 40 and doing that I lost around 1.5 mbps effective speed but I can live with this I guess

Still I don't get why the HG612 reports higher attainable speed of the BT Smarthub but anyway this is life
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William Grimsley

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Re: Can G.INP and RS Error Correction Coexist
« Reply #22 on: July 31, 2016, 09:11:25 PM »

Interceptor121, please stop going on about the same thing over and over again!
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loonylion

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Re: Can G.INP and RS Error Correction Coexist
« Reply #23 on: July 31, 2016, 09:33:19 PM »

Still I don't get why the HG612 reports higher attainable speed of the BT Smarthub but anyway this is life

I believe its because different modems calculate the attainable values slightly differently.
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