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[Chrysalis]

What is a fault is a matter of opinon.

BT boffins opinion of something been normal can be different to someone else's opinion.

I always look at it two ways.

1 - is there something sticking out that is clearly not right, in my opinion a varying snrm that is gradual and at similar times of day every day is ok, just a noisy line, but if it jumps up and down suddenly and is unpredictable I would consider it worthy of investigation, this is just my opinion.
2 - What do openreach treat as a fault, this is important because if openreach dont consider it a fault, then its going to be a waste of time.  Although if the problem is significant such e.g. halved line speed, then I would still push it.  But if its minor e.g. 5% loss of speed, then its probably not worth the bother.

There is nothing wrong with monitoring stats and it does help with diagnosis e.g. without even knowing the basics such as sync speed, when there is a throughput drop you left guessing at the reason.

So whilst it might be ok to say the boffins dont want people to know because they panic, there is also the element they dont want people to know so that actual faults dont get reported.  As after all they a commercial company trying to maximise profits.

Kitz in regards to your engineer telling you to not get fixated on stats, your line did actually have a fault.  He was essentially trying to mislead you.

[hagrid]

I was put onto the 55/10 product at around 3am on Monday the 18th and I was put on an open profile 9999/54998 (i.e no g.inp and an interleave of 1/1) the line did a re-sync at 5am on the 20th and remained the same. I am now 9 days into what I presume is a new 10 day initial training period and I am still on an open profile.

output of xdslcmd info --stats included for info.

xdslcmd info --stats
xdslcmd: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: Showtime
Retrain Reason:   1
Last initialization procedure status:   0
Max:   Upstream rate = 22821 Kbps, Downstream rate = 63208 Kbps
Bearer:   0, Upstream rate = 9999 Kbps, Downstream rate = 54998 Kbps

Link Power State:   L0
Mode:         VDSL2 Annex B
VDSL2 Profile:      Profile 17a
TPS-TC:         PTM Mode(0x0)
Trellis:      U:ON /D:ON
Line Status:      No Defect
Training Status:   Showtime
      Down      Up
SNR (dB):    8.5       21.8
Attn(dB):    11.8       0.0
Pwr(dBm):    14.0      -1.2
         VDSL2 framing
         Bearer 0
MSGc:      17      58
B:      239      236
M:      1      1
T:      64      23
R:      0      16
S:      0.1389      0.7543
L:      13824      2694
D:      1      1
I:      240      127
N:      240      254
         Counters
         Bearer 0
OHF:      287727016      503799
OHFErr:      295      338
RS:      0      2397987
RSCorr:      0      2093
RSUnCorr:   0      0

         Bearer 0
HEC:      577      0
OCD:      27      0
LCD:      27      0
Total Cells:   3426411664      0
Data Cells:   586743317      0
Drop Cells:   0
Bit Errors:   0      0

ES:      138      370
SES:      22      0
UAS:      131      109
AS:      641904

         Bearer 0
INP:      0.00      0.00
INPRein:   0.00      0.00
delay:      0      0
PER:      2.23      8.70
OR:      82.47      58.79
AgR:      55080.84   10057.90

Bitswap:   319775/319775      122/122

Total time = 1 days 17 hours 6 min 57 sec
FEC:      0      2346
CRC:      5397      395
ES:      138      370
SES:      22      0
UAS:      131      109
LOS:      2      0
LOF:      20      0
LOM:      0      0
Latest 15 minutes time = 6 min 57 sec
FEC:      0      0
CRC:      0      0
ES:      0      0
SES:      0      0
UAS:      0      0
LOS:      0      0
LOF:      0      0
LOM:      0      0
Previous 15 minutes time = 15 min 0 sec
FEC:      0      0
CRC:      0      0
ES:      0      0
SES:      0      0
UAS:      0      0
LOS:      0      0
LOF:      0      0
LOM:      0      0
Latest 1 day time = 17 hours 6 min 57 sec
FEC:      0      55
CRC:      5      23
ES:      4      23
SES:      0      0
UAS:      0      0
LOS:      0      0
LOF:      0      0
LOM:      0      0
Previous 1 day time = 24 hours 0 sec
FEC:      0      561
CRC:      180      110
ES:      28      50
SES:      0      0
UAS:      0      0
LOS:      0      0
LOF:      0      0
LOM:      0      0
Since Link time = 7 days 10 hours 18 min 23 sec
FEC:      0      2093
CRC:      295      338
ES:      91      276
SES:      0      0
UAS:      0      0
LOS:      0      0
LOF:      0      0
LOM:      0      0
#

DSLAM/MSAN type:           BDCM:0xa48c / v0xa48c

[digitalnemesis]

@hagrid did you migrate from BT 40/10 to 55/10? So you automatically had a DLM reset without asking?

[hagrid]

I migrated to 55/10 from 40/10 to take advantage of the extra speed downstream and as I was out of contract saved about £1.16 a month compared to what I was paying for the unlimited infinity 1 package with weekend calls.

[kitz]

>> So whilst it might be ok to say the boffins dont want people to know because they panic, there is also the element they dont want people to know so that actual faults dont get reported.

I totally agree.   I'm all for having stats available because they do show up problems.
I'm saying saying that when people get obsessive about 1dB variations then it strengthens the argument for the other side

>> Kitz in regards to your engineer telling you to not get fixated on stats, your line did actually have a fault.  He was essentially trying to mislead you.

I know this.   Same engineer also tried to tell me that CRCs didn't matter and that it was FEC's that were important.   Because my line didnt have any FEC's then it was perfectly fine.    Think about it for a moment.   The line at that particular time wasn't interleaved, of course it wouldnt have any FEC.
I should add this was not a Openreach Engineer gone through the ranks, but one of those BT took on at the time when they needed staff quickly and were recruiting ex military.   He was ex-navy and then proceeded to argue the case about FEC with me.
Seriously he chose the wrong person to try that one on, but can you imagine if that had been anyone else... such as William... or joe bloggs.

The result was a high level complaint went in via my ISP - its all documented in my thread a couple of years ago.   I was at that point about to throw the towel in.
I didnt say anything to him - I never do when it comes to my own faults..  but the next guy who turned up damn well knew who I was, so that must have filtered up from Plusnet and then back down through openreach, because I had never ever said to any of them whom I was.   He just probably thought I was a woman who didnt have a clue.     

[Chrysalis]

yeah I agree some people get obsessive about minor issues, william I think was over obsessed with his banding. Thats why I tried to tell him he wasnt going to achieve a big deal unbanding the line.

[NewtronStar]

@Kitz I am quite happy to watch my DS SNRm drop each evening by 1dB it's been doing this since day one when I starting to monitoring my line stats it is a bit annoying but that is part of this lines characteristic.

[Dave2150]

@Kitz I am quite happy to watch my DS SNRm drop each evening by 1dB it's been doing this since day one when I starting to monitoring my line stats it is a bit annoying but that is part of this lines characteristic.

I always assumed slight SNR fluctuations were to be expected - since the sun's electromagnetic interference impacts all our lines, unless someone has a completely underground line from PCP to house.

[NewtronStar]

I always assumed slight SNR fluctuations were to be expected - since the sun's electromagnetic interference impacts all our lines, unless someone has a completely underground line from PCP to house.

Radio propagation is what causes radio china & Romania to take 1dB away when the sun goes down.

[burakkucat]

I am currently monitoring William's circuit via MDWS.

There is a consistent rise and fall of both DS & US SNRM over a typical 24 hour period. Perfectly normal and to be expected.

However superimposed on that rise and fall of the US SNRM is a period of what I shall describe as "craziness". It only appears to be present during the hours of daylight. What could be the cause? At present I don't know. 

[NewtronStar]

It only appears to be present during the hours of daylight. What could be the cause? At present I don't know. 

Could it be caused by Economy 7 storage heaters they come on during the day and release the heat in the evening & night

edit: never mind that would be midnight to 7am

[kitz]

7-10ish?  The heat coming off William watching line stats?

.

..

....

That was a joke!!!  

More serious note...  as I mentioned last week, its a swing and not direct REIN like to be able to say its 'x' being switched on.
Swings are exceedingly hard to pin point as they can be a build up of several things, or something heating up.. or anything really.
Although I do acknowledge the line is noisy, this is primarily why I think it may end up causing more stress and something that may never be found...  unless it is HR in which case it will need to get worse, before its found.

Im not trying to let BT off the hook, but when all their tests come back clear and theres no real spiking you could end up on a road to nowhere for nothing.

[tbailey2]

Have you looked at his BitSwaps over say 5 days....

[kitz]

Doesnt really tell me much, other than more bit swapping going on when the SNRm is at its lowest which isnt surprising.

Bit surprised at more activity since Interleaving and FEC, but Im not sure what to make about that.

[NewtronStar]

I have small HR issue on my line but it's not service effecting and no way am I going to get 5 or 6 engineers out to trace a possible small fault which they won't find, and HR faults need to really bad and service effecting before an OR Engineer can find the fault.