Kitz ADSL Broadband Information
adsl spacer  
Support this site
Home Broadband ISPs Tech Routers Wiki Forum
 
     
   Compare ISP   Rate your ISP
   Glossary   Glossary
 
Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 ... 9

Author Topic: Plusnet refusing to send openreach out  (Read 17620 times)

Chrysalis

  • Content Team
  • Addicted Kitizen
  • *
  • Posts: 5694
Re: Plusnet refusing to send openreach out
« Reply #15 on: April 23, 2016, 03:22:15 AM »

have you resynced to see if it fixes the tone issue (actually reboot modem).

If the behaviour persists you clearly have some kind of fault.

The problem is this system with openreach and the CPs they dont look at faults as a malfunctioning protocol, but rather a very simplistic view of speeds and estimated speeds.  They e.g. could say well after your last visit, there is simply new crosstalk and that's part and parcel of the service.

I would suggest PM'ing one of the plusnet staff on the plusnet forums to see if they will push this along, if you still hit a brick wall then change isp.
Logged
Sky Fiber Pro - Billion 8800NL bridge & PFSense BOX running PFSense 2.4 - ECI Cab - LINE STATISTICS CLICK HERE

Busa

  • Reg Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 119
Re: Plusnet refusing to send openreach out
« Reply #16 on: April 23, 2016, 09:31:15 AM »

First thing I did and it has not made any difference. The problem seems to be total incompetence on the part of openreach and the fact his equipment was giving random test results every time he used it. He even showed me my line speed getting slower the further from my house he tested it!  ::)
Basically he has dropped me onto another pair and has not tested it at all, he also admitted he was not the qualified broadband engineer I was promised, which was fairly obvious.
The issue I have now is getting this through the thick and unhelpful skulls at plusnet.
Logged

Busa

  • Reg Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 119
Re: Plusnet refusing to send openreach out
« Reply #17 on: April 23, 2016, 01:58:17 PM »

Well I've just come of yet another chat and then a phone call to PlusNet and they are still refusing to sent the Broadband Engineer they requested I have in the first place.

They are still quoting the minimum acceptable regardless of the fact I've lost 10Mbps in the last two botched openreach visits stating they can't send an engineer when it is within the tolerance.

I took great pleasure in asking them why they sent the previous two when it was actually better than it is now, this they could not answer. Why do they not understand (or more likely not want to understand) they are obliged to give me the best possible performance my line can achieve not the bear minimum?

Well unless I get a reasonable response from them by Monday I'll be calling their retentions team and cancelling every service I have with them and they can swivel if they think I'll be paying cancellation charges, they can offset their charges with my own lost revenue from the last two openreach visits which would put them seriously out of pocket should I pass my invoices on.
Logged

ejs

  • Kitizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 1938
Re: Plusnet refusing to send openreach out
« Reply #18 on: April 23, 2016, 04:24:18 PM »

What makes you think that they are obliged to give you the best possible performance your line could possibly achieve?

In a way, your line is already operating at the best possible speed it can currently achieve, that's how we tend to operate DSL in this country with these "up to" headline speeds.

If there's no indication of any fault, they'd have to book a boost or SFI visit, which would almost certainly cost them (unless the SFI visit finds something considered a fault). The amount of support time you've already taken up, you've probably already cost them more than any profit they might have otherwise been looking to make from you over a year.

I think the stupidest thing is that they probably shouldn't have sent the previous two engineers in the first place.
Logged

Busa

  • Reg Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 119
Re: Plusnet refusing to send openreach out
« Reply #19 on: April 23, 2016, 04:39:27 PM »

I believe they are obliged to send them given the fact they screwed it up in the first place, this was PlusNet and Openreach's doing, not mine, it was PlusNet that insisted on these visits.

There is most definitely a fault as half my tone range has vanished along with an actual 10Mbps of download speed and my upload speed is still below the low estimate and still dropping.

Being quite frank the cost to PlusNet is of little concern to me, they are there to provide me the service I pay for and have been happily receiving. My clients couldn't care less if my costs spiral out of control so long as I can't hit them with a variation order. Besides, as it was Openreach who screwed this up surely PlusNet have cause to refuse to pay for this service themselves.

I really can't believe anyone would think this is acceptable at all, it's like asking the bank for 100, they take it from your account then give you 75, would you accept that?

As for your comment about the two previous visits, I do agree and actually advised PlusNet it would be pointless as most of the issues I had were in the evenings and no issues during normal working hours so Openreach would almost certainly not find a problem anyway. As already said it was PlusNet who insisted on these visits when my line was functioning at a far better rate and I have that as evidence.
« Last Edit: April 23, 2016, 04:59:23 PM by Busa »
Logged

ejs

  • Kitizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 1938
Re: Plusnet refusing to send openreach out
« Reply #20 on: April 23, 2016, 05:11:07 PM »

People often seem to say that the engineer visit was their ISP's or some part of BT's idea, but surely it wouldn't have been suggested if you hadn't raised a fault, and you didn't have to accept the engineer visit?

Few people seem to care about who ends up paying for a whole lot of hassle trying to fix some relatively minor issue, so long as it's not them, it doesn't matter, it'll come out of everyone else's line rental.
Logged

aesmith

  • Reg Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 831
Re: Plusnet refusing to send openreach out
« Reply #21 on: April 23, 2016, 05:19:05 PM »

In a way, your line is already operating at the best possible speed it can currently achieve, that's how we tend to operate DSL in this country with these "up to" headline speeds.

I think that depends on why the speed has dropped, and I don't think we know that in this case.  If the line used to run at 50+ meg, and now only runs at 40 then clearly something's changed and if the something is the characteristics of the line then I think there's a good case for saying that's a fault.  If it's external interference, or cross talk due to more subscribers on the same cabinet then maybe it is just something that has to be lived with.

By the way, how's the phone line?  Maybe a broadband engineer isn't the right animal in this case.
Logged

Busa

  • Reg Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 119
Re: Plusnet refusing to send openreach out
« Reply #22 on: April 23, 2016, 05:36:12 PM »

I know exactly what has changed they have put me on another pair which is performing worse and as they didn't have any working test equipment with them they didn't test it, they just sloped off asked me to try it and they would be back. An hour later they phoned me at which point I advised whatever they had done was worse they told me thy would not be coming back. How in any way shape or form is this acceptable and why should I have to live with the consequences of their incompetence?

As already said the last guy actually showed me the line speed decreasing the further he got from my house and his tester was showing random line speeds when tried at the same point. He actually admitted his equipment was faulty.

My line was working 20% faster on the download prior to the last two Openreach visits, fact. I was promised a Broadband Engineer on both occasions, fact. I got two Telephone Engineers who openly admitted they didn't have a clue, also a fact.

Phone line is fine, as said the issue was and always has been my upload speed however now Openreach have managed to drag my download speed to an equality poor level.

I'm actually paying for 80/20 which I was happy to pay for given the 49Mbps down/7.5Mbps up but since the last Openreach vist I'm only getting levels in line with a 40/10 service some 38.5Mbps down/5.8Mbps up.
« Last Edit: April 23, 2016, 05:41:09 PM by Busa »
Logged

ejs

  • Kitizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 1938
Re: Plusnet refusing to send openreach out
« Reply #23 on: April 23, 2016, 05:42:31 PM »

This is often what happens when trying to fix something that's barely a problem in the first place, pointless things get done which may make things worse, the whole thing is a waste of time and money, and everyone is unhappy. But Plusnet have dug themselves into a hole, so now have to dig themselves out of it.
Logged

Busa

  • Reg Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 119
Re: Plusnet refusing to send openreach out
« Reply #24 on: April 23, 2016, 06:25:07 PM »

But Plusnet have dug themselves into a hole, so now have to dig themselves out of it.

It would help if they put down the shovel and stepped back from the hole  ;D

I find it totally unbelievable what the general public are expected to accept in this country for services they hand over money for.

If companies put as much effort and money into doing the right thing and making things better rather than fobbing people off and making excuses just think how much easier life would be. Unfortunately this is not the way we think or work in the UK, it's usually a case of let's make one, sell it at the highest price possible then all retire, stuff everyone else.
The Japanese (as an example) are usually thinking generations ahead on investment, they will constantly develop and improve their products whilst reducing costs, sell it at a loss to flood the market killing the competition then make their money back in services and spares over the long term. Far more reliable and forward thinking, it pains me to say this an a British Engineer!  :-[
Logged

Chrysalis

  • Content Team
  • Addicted Kitizen
  • *
  • Posts: 5694
Re: Plusnet refusing to send openreach out
« Reply #25 on: April 24, 2016, 04:41:58 AM »

I am backing busa on this one, clearly a problem to be solved.

I have never heard of plusnet been this stubborn before tho.
Logged
Sky Fiber Pro - Billion 8800NL bridge & PFSense BOX running PFSense 2.4 - ECI Cab - LINE STATISTICS CLICK HERE

ejs

  • Kitizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 1938
Re: Plusnet refusing to send openreach out
« Reply #26 on: April 24, 2016, 06:32:21 AM »

On one hand, they said they were happy with 49Mbps down/7.5Mbps up, yet on the other hand, they had the first engineer out when their line speed was 50019kbps down, 7048kbps up (it's difficult to read the numbers in the jpg, but I think they are zeroes not sixes). I didn't realise that the low end of the estimate was a guaranteed minimum speed. So now, after the first two engineers which shouldn't have been sent, they've got to send another engineer to put things back to where they were before the first visit, and also presumably try to solve the issue of the upload being under the low end of the estimate?
Logged

Busa

  • Reg Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 119
Re: Plusnet refusing to send openreach out
« Reply #27 on: April 24, 2016, 12:27:05 PM »

That 7048 kbps was actually the highest figure on the upstream I'd seen since February, it was down at less than 6000 kbps most of the time.
The 49/7.5 I quoted where actual download/upload speeds I was getting not the line rates.

As said it was Plusnet that insisted on the Openreach visits on both occasions, I was happy to have the visit in the evening as that was when the issues were happening, obviously Openreach do not work 24/7 which I find unbelievable. Fault finding when faults do not occur is a little pointless wouldn't you agree?

I have pointed out to them they where happy to send Openreach on both the 11/04/16 and then again on 21/04/16 when on both occasions my speed (and connection in general) was far better than it is now that they are refusing. I'd like to find out from, in their own words exactly what their reasoning is now. I'll keep you posted.
Logged

Busa

  • Reg Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 119
Re: Plusnet refusing to send openreach out
« Reply #28 on: April 24, 2016, 12:48:35 PM »

Just to make things a little clearer a couple of BTW Speedtests taken on 06/04/16 and within the last 15 mins today 24/04/16, both on same pc on wired connection:

Logged

ejs

  • Kitizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 1938
Re: Plusnet refusing to send openreach out
« Reply #29 on: April 24, 2016, 01:25:29 PM »

I think it could be either of:
  • The first and second engineers shouldn't have been sent.
  • They sent out an engineer because they had to be seen to be doing something, rather than just tell you that oh well, speeds can go down over time. Perhaps they were hoping the engineer would plug in their tester, tell you everything was fine and you were still getting fairly good speeds, and explain all sorts of reasons why you speeds could have dropped that they can't do anything about. They were hoping that an engineer checking things and telling you that there's no fault would have satisfied you that they've tried to fix your issue. Obviously this backfired terribly when one of the engineers made things worse.

I also wonder if Plusnet have some fixed monthly budget to spend on engineer visits, so if it hasn't been used up yet, some people get a boost or SFI engineer visit to make Plusnet look good, if it's been used up, other people get told that there's nothing they can do.
Logged
Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 ... 9
 

anything