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[jid]

Nice to see your stats uploading William, your upstream is definitely getting a hammering - indicates a noisy line for sure.

Now i'm seeing your stats, I'd defo agree its banded.

[William Grimsley]

Nice to see your stats uploading William, your upstream is definitely getting a hammering - indicates a noisy line for sure.

Now i'm seeing your stats, I'd defo agree its banded.

Yeah, it's a shame it's classed as noisy as the line only has a faint hiss on it, just started noticing it recently. :/

Quiet line test now getting distant like siren noises in the background...

[kitz]

Thank you William... or should that be cheers-me-dears 

We got there in the end.

[William Grimsley]

Yes, we did. For some reason my Billion is showing less ES than MDWS?

[jid]

You should be mentioning the faint line noise to the engineer when he visits, although as this is a Broadband visit they can't really do anything about a hiss on the voice side.

Wait how it goes tomorrow, and then if nothing is done you can go ahead and report a voice fault - do this only after the results of tomorrow though!

[William Grimsley]

If I mention it, he may be reluctant to reset the DLM. The Openreach engineer visit is Friday, btw.

[jid]

My bad, I keep thinking it's Thursday today

Yes don't mention it unless you feel necessary.

[William Grimsley]

Ah, I wish it was Friday but not long at all now.

Would anyone mind me doing one reboot to bring G.INP through, or is there no point?

[gt94sss2]

There is no point doing a reboot - it won't give you g.inp - if DLM wanted to give it to you, it would resync your line itself.

Do mention the noise on the line - though ideally you should have reported it as a separate voice fault before. I would have thought line noise is one thing that they might check for anyway during a boost task but its hard for them especially if the noise is intermittent.

[William Grimsley]

I only really noticed the line noise last night, so can't really report it now. I won't tell the Openreach engineer about it if you say he's going to pick it up.

[gt94sss2]

Do mention it - it might not be present when he visits tomorrow!

[William Grimsley]

Ok, I will. I've just got a risk of loosing the DLM reset as he'll think *Ah, line fault can't reset line*...

[kitz]

Can I just bring this thread back into context please.

Whilst it is obvious that William has some upstream SNRM varience, I discussed this yesterday and I think right now it is far to early to draw any conclusions.

Can I also ask people to be mindful of Williams condition and the real reason why he needs an Openreach visit.  Im concerned if we go off on a different tangent, then the points I tried to so carefully impress on William the other day may be overlooked.

I realise part of the problem is that there is so many threads about Williams line that certain information is spread over several different threads.  I think its great that so many people are trying to help William with his line, but I can see that he is getting confused by some of this info and appreciate it's because he has different threads going on, with different into in each of these threads

I appreciate that there is some upstream variance showing, but can we for now put it into perspective that some lines do swing up to 2dB on a daily basis, and anything up to 3dB is classed as within normal operating range. 

Im not talking of spiking, Im talking of a swing that we can see on many lines, eg Newts and more.  Heck even my own line which I class as stable can see regular upstream swings of 1dB.

I mentioned yesterday afternoon that to me it looked like something was switched on and Im wondering if right now it if it is in Williams best interest to get involved with something that could be upstream REIN that could be hard to track down..  thereby detracting the Openreach engineer from the downstream issue of what appears to be a stuck cap.

@william

Your SNRm could just be displaying a normal daily cycle.   You need to keep MDWS on the line for a period of a few days though before we could see if its normal behaviour for your line.
 
It not quite usual for many lines to vary by 2dB over the course of the day.   Look at Newtron Stars, his does something similar thing each day, but just at different times.   Its just EMI/RFI coming from some external source.

However - dont panic yet! -  I did notice something slightly  between the hours of  1pm and 4:30pm - was anything turned on at that time?
I must stress though that it is only 0.6dB so it will be hard to detect and not seen as a fault.  This isnt something that an engineer can fix.

Its hard to say anything yet with only 18 hrs of graphing.   MDWS needs to be on your line for a few days before we can see your line typical line behaviour.

I am also concerned that William is getting conflicting advice and the more that we throw at him, if it could lead to an overload situation whereby the most pressing issue doesnt get sorted.

On the whole, the upstream seems to be coping fine and the Errored Seconds are still below the MTBE threshold.

What he does need fixing is the DLM reset which will hopefully correct the stuck 35Mbps to what could possibly be >46 Mbps of downstream sync.

If William had been graphing earlier we would have a far bigger picture, but as yet we havent. 
I honestly dont see that an OR engineer will be too concerned about upstream variance of a few dB.. its a known fact that they dont give much priority to upstream.   

I had a hell of a job trying to get Openreach to take note of my upstream variance of 10dB which was on occasion knocking me off line and they couldnt track it down until it came to the point of an extremely audible voice fault.  Do we really want to be sending William down that route for what atm looks like a small REIN issue and what could be an emerging HR fault - both extremely difficult to trace and track down.
Until it becomes a voice fault or starts generating E/S red, I think for now we should concentrate on his downstream.

My biggest fear is if we do overload William with info, then the downstream issue will get overlooked in favour of something else that Openreach may not be able to do anything about.   

[kitz]

@William

Have you got your bullet point list ready which you are going to hand over to the Engineer?

If you want to post a copy of this here first, we can check it out for you and make sure that you have covered all the points which you need to.

I really want to ensure that you get the best possible chance of getting the downstream cap sorted, so if you run this by us first then we shall be happy to help.

[William Grimsley]

Hi kitz,

Thanks for your reply, so detailed it's incredible.

Yes, I also thought the same that the Upstream SNR Margin variance seems "normal" to me hence why I'm reluctant to report a voice fault because as you say it will possibly remove the likelihood of getting a DLM reset and we don't want that do we.

Yes, I'll post the bullet points below:

•   BT Home Hub 5 started rebooting several times a day – this evoked DLM to intervene on the line.
•   Bought a new Billion BiPAC 8800NL router and since that date the line has been completely stable.
•   2 months have passed and DLM has still banded my line and has kept the Downstream Rate at around 35 Mbps even though the Downstream Attainable Rate has sat around 43 – 46 Mbps continually.
•   The 55/10 package came available so thought upgrading to that would cause a DLM reset, however the line is still banded and interleaving and FEC has followed causing the Downstream Attainable Rate to drop further.
•   The line is stable due to very low ES, however the line banding still remains in place.

Oh, god now spiking on Downstream SNR Margin, not a crosstalker fault... :/ I have someone next to me on FTTC who has 50% of the speed I have so they could have a fault now...