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Author Topic: G.INP rollout 2016 - ECI cabs  (Read 26883 times)

Chrysalis

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Re: G.INP rollout 2016 - ECI cabs
« Reply #15 on: April 11, 2016, 10:23:03 PM »

If you consider they need to have board meetings, run trials for potential fixes and so forth, I would be surprised if we had a fix before June.

I am hoping my line hasnt been pulled and I am simply very late in the rollout, but I have a feeling the 206 reasoning is correct and I am in the set of lines pulled from the rollout.
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NewtronStar

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Re: G.INP rollout 2016 - ECI cabs
« Reply #16 on: April 11, 2016, 11:17:29 PM »

I am hoping my line hasnt been pulled and I am simply very late in the rollout, but I have a feeling the 206 reasoning is correct and I am in the set of lines pulled from the rollout.

I am sorry Chrysalis but you should have had G.INP acitvated by now and the delay looks like its has been pulled as you call it but at least your still on the so called fastpath profile nothing is going to change to what you already see in the stats.

I just can't believe my eyes we are seeing the same situation acting out again this time on the ECI cabinets most people seeing great results and others seeing negative results.

You would have thought Openreach got their fingers burnt with G.INP Mk1 on huawei cabinets in May 2015 and the ECI G.INP rollout would go very smooth this time with the knowledge they gained.

It looks like ECI issue 2 those bloody ECI modems and HH5a but seeing not much activity on BT forums yet the source seems to be coming from the Plusnet Forums 
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Chrysalis

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Re: G.INP rollout 2016 - ECI cabs
« Reply #17 on: April 12, 2016, 01:09:54 AM »

well I am not even using an ECI modem.
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kitz

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Re: G.INP rollout 2016 - ECI cabs
« Reply #18 on: April 12, 2016, 12:25:24 PM »


I just can't believe my eyes we are seeing the same situation acting out again this time on the ECI cabinets most people seeing great results and others seeing negative results.

You would have thought Openreach got their fingers burnt with G.INP Mk1 on huawei cabinets in May 2015 and the ECI G.INP rollout would go very smooth this time with the knowledge they gained.

It looks like ECI issue 2 those bloody ECI modems and HH5a but seeing not much activity on BT forums yet the source seems to be coming from the Plusnet Forums

Sorry NS, Ive read your post about 6 times and cant make out what you are trying to say here.
What do you mean about ECI and HH5a and issue 2 and BT and Plusnet forums?  Im confused?


This is a totally different issue to what happened with G.INP Mk1.   
What has happened this time is that a number of users have been unable to obtain PPP.  The modem syncs up, but doesn't connect to the ISP.
ie the ECI Issue 1 problem.

They have identified which lines this problem could to happen to... and for those lines only they have ceased the roll-out regardless if the EU has a problem or not. 

I suspect that its the 206 cabs.   206 cabs had some type of new firmware rolled out about 2 months ago. 
Those of us on 204 seem ok, but then again anyone on here is most likely to have fully g.inped modems anyhow.

As I mentioned in my earlier post I am speculating about it being 206,  it certainly looks like the 206 change could somehow affected something to do with g.inp.. and whatever it is, it causes problems for some people to establish a PPP session.

So it looks like what Openreach is doing is removing g.inp for people on those cabinets so that the affected users can at least get online.
I have a niggle about 206 FEC/EMP whatever number it was, that I cant quite put my finger on...    but I wont speculate further and make out 2+2 equals 5

I dont have much more info other than appx how many lines have the potential to be affected but I have absolutely no idea of how many actually are affected  - TBH Im not even sure if all ISPs are aware yet.. or even if its filtered down to the OR engineers yet, because its was less than a week ago that they identified the problem.
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kitz

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Re: G.INP rollout 2016 - ECI cabs
« Reply #19 on: April 12, 2016, 12:41:11 PM »

BTW

If someone cant get PPP, then they aren't very likely to be posting about it on forums, because they wont be able to get online to post, so most of the support will be say via phone.  The average man in the street wont know about the difference between sync and PPP - as far as they are concerned they struggle to connect to the internet.   These are the type of posts we should be looking out for.

Even then we have to be careful,  you can see here that initially mikeb was displaying all the signs that his line could be related to the issue because he was having difficulty obtaining PPP, however when I actually sat down and looked at the stats in more depth, his problem was that he was using a Draytek router that was known to have problems with g.inp Mk1.   He's updated his f/w and since then things appear to have been stable.  So I think in his case it was the Draytech using old f/w.

- note he said he could connect using a HG633, but things have since been complicated further because the OR engineer did a DLM reset.  A DLM reset for G.INP'd lines will cause interleaved to be applied by default and he will have to wait for DLM to put g.inp back on again. 



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skyeci

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Re: G.INP rollout 2016 - ECI cabs
« Reply #20 on: April 12, 2016, 01:55:37 PM »


BTW

If someone cant get PPP, then they aren't very likely to be posting about it on forums, because they wont be able to get online to post, so most of the support will be say via phone.  The average man in the street wont know about the difference between sync and PPP - as far as they are concerned they struggle to connect to the internet.   These are the type of posts we should be looking out for.

Even then we have to be careful,  you can see here that initially mikeb was displaying all the signs that his line could be related to the issue because he was having difficulty obtaining PPP, however when I actually sat down and looked at the stats in more depth, his problem was that he was using a Draytek router that was known to have problems with g.inp Mk1.   He's updated his f/w and since then things appear to have been stable.  So I think in his case it was the Draytech using old f/w.

- note he said he could connect using a HG633, but things have since been complicated further because the OR engineer did a DLM reset.  A DLM reset for G.INP'd lines will cause interleaved to be applied by default and he will have to wait for DLM to put g.inp back on again.

just thought it was worth mentioning I had no issues with access to the net with g.inp on my 206 cab. What I did see was high upstream es which seems to have led to reysnc at which point it was removed be it BT OR or DLM . I am not sure which one it was in the end as I was away and my monitoring was down at the time.
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Chrysalis

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Re: G.INP rollout 2016 - ECI cabs
« Reply #21 on: April 12, 2016, 02:30:18 PM »

kitz I havent read about anyone been unable to connect at all  I had assumed this was suspended (I hope not a complete cease) because of the increase of tech support calls, from people not been happy about losing sync speed etc.

I trust you got this from a reliable source so its accurate regarding the PPP and I accept those who cannot get online will have been most likely reporting it by phone rather than internet.
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kitz

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Re: G.INP rollout 2016 - ECI cabs
« Reply #22 on: April 12, 2016, 02:35:21 PM »

Quote
I had no issues with access to the net with g.inp on my 206 cab.

That will be because you were using the Billion which is fully g.inp compatible.. and then later the ECI with custom F/W with g.inp support.

The PPP problem is something we were pre-warned about as far back as 8th of Jan 2015 which could affect the ECI modems.

Openreach have without a doubt received an increase in call-outs over the past week or so from people who cant get PPP, so an engineer has had to be sent out who confirmed PPP type faults.  Last week they identified which lines (on certain cabs?) are most likely to experience this issue.

It's strange that in 2015 they anticipated this may happen and even warned to look out for it.... but we never really saw much of it on the Huawei cabs and the type1 issue was much of a non-event.   Yet now theyve rolled it out to the ECI's suddenly it is.    ??? 
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kitz

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Re: G.INP rollout 2016 - ECI cabs
« Reply #23 on: April 12, 2016, 03:11:00 PM »

kitz I havent read about anyone been unable to connect at all  I had assumed this was suspended (I hope not a complete cease) because of the increase of tech support calls, from people not been happy about losing sync speed etc.

Not fully suspended across the whole ECI estate.   Just for those lines identified that had potential to be affected by the PPP issue even though they weren't seeing it.  They did this as a preventative measure even though the vast majority had no issues.

The above is fact from a reputable source.

----

The following is speculation on my part & trying to read between lines, but say as they got to about 75% of the rollout, they noticed that call-outs for people having problems with PPP were clustered in certain areas and on certain cabs.

The number wasnt very high, but as a preventative measure they decided to stop rollouts to people who were on those cabs.   The cab was g.inp active, but as we know not everyone in the same area gets the DLM g.inp part activated at the same time.
 
 
A hypothetical scenario could have been that an engineer noticed that 2 people on Chrys's cab couldnt connect to the Internet...  but Chyrs himself hasnt yet had the DLM part updated..   best not do that because we dont know if Chrys has a modem which might stop him from being able to connect..    but what they dont know is that Chrys has a Billion so would be ok.

Because g.inp is a 2 part process at the cab f/w level and at the DLM level,  Im guessing they will be removing the DLM aspects for those currently already on DLM so they can reverse whatever is wrong at cab level.   Its looking like a bug was introduced in 206 that only affects some modems.   I guess we need to watch over the next week if those being removed are the 206 cabs..  so far it is looking like it.  However we only have a small representation on MDWS,  so as yet were not able to draw a positive conclusion.   
 
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skyeci

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Re: G.INP rollout 2016 - ECI cabs
« Reply #24 on: April 12, 2016, 03:54:53 PM »

kitz I havent read about anyone been unable to connect at all  I had assumed this was suspended (I hope not a complete cease) because of the increase of tech support calls, from people not been happy about losing sync speed etc.

Not fully suspended across the whole ECI estate.   Just for those lines identified that had potential to be affected by the PPP issue even though they weren't seeing it.  They did this as a preventative measure even though the vast majority had no issues.

The above is fact from a reputable source.

----

The following is speculation on my part & trying to read between lines, but say as they got to about 75% of the rollout, they noticed that call-outs for people having problems with PPP were clustered in certain areas and on certain cabs.

The number wasnt very high, but as a preventative measure they decided to stop rollouts to people who were on those cabs.   The cab was g.inp active, but as we know not everyone in the same area gets the DLM g.inp part activated at the same time.
 
 
A hypothetical scenario could have been that an engineer noticed that 2 people on Chrys's cab couldnt connect to the Internet...  but Chyrs himself hasnt yet had the DLM part updated..   best not do that because we dont know if Chrys has a modem which might stop him from being able to connect..    but what they dont know is that Chrys has a Billion so would be ok.

Because g.inp is a 2 part process at the cab f/w level and at the DLM level,  Im guessing they will be removing the DLM aspects for those currently already on DLM so they can reverse whatever is wrong at cab level.   Its looking like a bug was introduced in 206 that only affects some modems.   I guess we need to watch over the next week if those being removed are the 206 cabs..  so far it is looking like it.  However we only have a small representation on MDWS,  so as yet were not able to draw a positive conclusion.   
 

I suppose the issue I still can't get my head round was I was/am still using a fully g.inp compatible modem but I still lost the g.inp even though at the time the modem had been stable for a week. I guess maybe other users on my cabinet (version 206) were having issues so if they removed it from the cab or exchange I was affected as well ??? ???
« Last Edit: April 12, 2016, 03:57:32 PM by skyeci »
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NewtronStar

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Re: G.INP rollout 2016 - ECI cabs
« Reply #25 on: April 12, 2016, 07:25:39 PM »

Many thanks Kitz for explaining what is going on with those 206 ECI cabinets it's the fully g.inp compatible modems which has me confused yes the HG612 is an the Billion 8800nl and Zyxels are and others.

Ok I am going stop beating around the bush it looks like the ECI modems and HH5a's do not support G.INP in any directions and they just use the Fastpath or Interleaving profiles and the ECI cabinet update to v206 has made those modems unable to get a PPP session since the G.INP rollout.
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skyeci

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Re: G.INP rollout 2016 - ECI cabs
« Reply #26 on: April 12, 2016, 07:59:14 PM »

Many thanks Kitz for explaining what is going on with those 206 ECI cabinets it's the fully g.inp compatible modems which has me confused yes the HG612 is an the Billion 8800nl and Zyxels are and others.

Ok I am going stop beating around the bush it looks like the ECI modems and HH5a's do not support G.INP in any directions and they just use the Fastpath or Interleaving profiles and the ECI cabinet update to v206 has made those modems unable to get a PPP session since the G.INP rollout.

Bear in mind the flashed openwrt eci modem does support g.inp as I used it and saw 8-9mb increase on ds plus a large drop in latency. I only stopped using it due to missing the online stats with mydslwebstats...
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NewtronStar

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Re: G.INP rollout 2016 - ECI cabs
« Reply #27 on: April 12, 2016, 09:20:29 PM »

Bear in mind the flashed openwrt eci modem does support g.inp as I used it and saw 8-9mb increase on ds plus a large drop in latency. I only stopped using it due to missing the online stats with mydslwebstats...

I fully understand have a fully working G.INP Arcadyan 63168 Modem & Router but no access to DSLstats when using that modem have to use my trusty HG612 which gives me - 4Mbps on the downstream than the Arcadyan 63168.

The Billion 8800nl would be the best for both worlds  :fingers:
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Bald_Eagle1

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Re: G.INP rollout 2016 - ECI cabs
« Reply #28 on: April 12, 2016, 09:52:59 PM »

I've been away for a few days & as I'm only just starting to catch up, I wasn't aware of the issue.

FWIW, I have attached the 12 day Full__Monty montage using a HG612 modem from a line connected to an ECI DSLAM (ChipSet Vendor Id:   IFTN:0xb204), where G.INP was applied 1st April & then deactivated again 8th April.

Interestingly, US CRCs & ES increased when G.INP was applied yet unlike the other stats, they haven't really changed much since G.INP was deactivated.

This may/may not be a different issue though????
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Black Sheep

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Re: G.INP rollout 2016 - ECI cabs
« Reply #29 on: April 12, 2016, 10:26:08 PM »

I can say that it was deffo 8th April the deactivating began.  :)
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