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Author Topic: Poor ADSL2+ speed rates?  (Read 16492 times)

sheepfarmer

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Re: Poor ADSL2+ speed rates?
« Reply #15 on: April 05, 2016, 08:29:42 AM »

Just resynched a few minutes ago - current stats...

Downstream: 8190 kbps - SNRM 12.1db - attenuation 28.0db - interleave depth 128 - INP 2.70 - delay 14.6 ms
Upstream: 1020 kbps - SNRM 13.7db - attenuation 12.8db - interleave depth 0 - INP 0.0 - delay 1.13 ms

And the bitloading snapshot is attached.

I noticed that the interference came back between 7.30 am and 8.04am - someone using the offending device before going to work maybe? :-\

Also on the bitloading graph, tone 127 has zero bits - this likely corresponds to the 549kHz radio transmission I referenced earlier which is the strongest MW radio signal locally. However none of the other gaps seem obvious against AM radio transmissions.

Edit: speedtest.net result

« Last Edit: April 05, 2016, 08:33:17 AM by sheepfarmer »
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burakkucat

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Re: Poor ADSL2+ speed rates?
« Reply #16 on: April 05, 2016, 06:06:06 PM »

If you would please consider creating a MyDSLWebStats account, you can then automatically upload your circuit's data for us all to view.

As for tone number 127, the frequency is approximately 547 - 548 kHz. Looking at the usual reference, I do not find a match amongst the licensed broadcast transmitting stations . . .

(Assuming I've done the arithmetic correctly, a signal of approximately 547 - 548 kHz has a wavelength of approximately 547 - 548 metres!  :D  )
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sheepfarmer

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Re: Poor ADSL2+ speed rates?
« Reply #17 on: April 05, 2016, 08:22:55 PM »

I'll try and get an account at the website you mentioned later, possibly tomorrow. In the meantime I've still my stats running from this morning.

Re: Tone 127 - the station & transmitter in question isn't based in the UK - It comes from Spirit Radio in the Republic of Ireland. They have a network of low-ish power FM transmission in key towns and cities there plus they have a MW transmitter on 549kHz...

http://www.spiritradio.ie/on-air/where-can-i-listen/

Claimed coverage... https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer?ll=53.173119%2C-6.020508&spn=5.631679%2C16.907959&msa=0&mid=zuFY3LoJqI6w.k5ATZ8FmA8l0

...the transmitter location is listed as Carrickroe, which is in north Co. Monaghan less than 3 miles from the border with Northern Ireland & Co. Tyrone. Using Google Maps, the LOS distance is approx. 15 miles for me and Spirit Radio are apparently using an ERP of 25kW on that frequency. There's an unlicenced station in the same area also on MW called Radio Star County on 981kHz with a 1kW ERP, but it doesn't appear to be affecting the bitloading on tones 227 & 228 unlike the way Spirit does on 127.

Anyway I've taken an SNR snapshot of the last 12 hours. The drop in downstream SNR is pretty abrupt.
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burakkucat

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Re: Poor ADSL2+ speed rates?
« Reply #18 on: April 05, 2016, 08:57:48 PM »

That is a spectacular 8 dB decrease in the DS SNRM . . . a perfectly vertical, cliff-face of a drop, whereas the drop for the US SNRM appears to be a little under 1 dB.  :o

Thank you for the details of those transmitters in the Republic. I was wondering if that might be the case, for radio waves do not respect any national boundary.
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sheepfarmer

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Re: Poor ADSL2+ speed rates?
« Reply #19 on: April 06, 2016, 05:41:46 PM »

Hi, I set up a MyDSLwebStats accounts in the wee hours this morning - my username is "sfarmer"

In the meantime I noticed that on the first abrupt dip in the downstream SNRM, the amount of FEC errors went from zero to, well I'm not sure how much is too much.  :-\ However once the SNRM levels recovered, the FEC levels changed very little.

Interestingly while the mid-late afternoon SNRM dip happened again, it has now risen back up - whatever the offending device is it's stopped temporarily for now rather than being a constant interference plague until well after midnight. Might be time to try the 612kHz "REIN hunter" technique.

Attached is a graph showing the FEC just before the first SNRM drop yesterday afternoon, the last 24 hours of SNRM, and all snapshots taken a few minutes ago in a zip file.

 :)
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burakkucat

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Re: Poor ADSL2+ speed rates?
« Reply #20 on: April 06, 2016, 07:06:17 PM »

Rather peculiar.  ???

I wonder if WWWombat can spot anything untoward, please?  :-\
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sheepfarmer

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Re: Poor ADSL2+ speed rates?
« Reply #21 on: April 07, 2016, 11:01:27 PM »

Hi - I had the TG582n disconnected for a short while this evening while I was testing a Huaewi HG612 I just got my hands on. Whilst I had some trouble configuring it for internet browsing it did connect to my ADSL service. This was during the period where the interference (which shows on my SNRM graph when synched at ~8Mbps download dropping from 12db to 4db), so I took advantage to grab a QLN, HLog & SNR per tone graph. Hopefully they might reveal more clues - it might be worth trying this again tomorrow when this source of interference gets turned off (from around 8am to 4pm)?
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sheepfarmer

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Re: Poor ADSL2+ speed rates?
« Reply #22 on: April 08, 2016, 09:52:22 AM »

Values with the 8db SNRM killing noise not present...
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burakkucat

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Re: Poor ADSL2+ speed rates?
« Reply #23 on: April 08, 2016, 05:41:17 PM »

Hmm . . . There does not seem to be anything obvious, to me.  :-\
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konrado5

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Re: Poor ADSL2+ speed rates?
« Reply #24 on: April 08, 2016, 08:25:50 PM »

On QLN I don't see any noise at the place of the bit-loading gap. However I see gaps on Hlog (lack of signal). It seems it is strange DSLAM operation (no interferences). DLSAM sometimes disables some tones. On the last tones you have crosstalk.

Best regards
konrado5
« Last Edit: April 08, 2016, 08:32:11 PM by konrado5 »
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sheepfarmer

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Re: Poor ADSL2+ speed rates?
« Reply #25 on: April 09, 2016, 03:17:15 AM »

From what I've been able to gather up to now...

* The DSLAM is setting the downstream SNRM at 12db regardless of the the speed it connects to at sync.

* The reason for the 12db setting appears to allow for a margin to compensate for a non-continuous source of interference that when present increases the noise level by approx 8db almost instantly. (Non-continuous in the sense of not being present 24/7 rather than having regular 'pulse' interference.)  :'(

* The times this non-continuous interference source is present is during weekdays between roughly 7.15am to 8.15am and from some time starting between 4pm to 5pm until around 12am to 1am. There was one occasion this week when this interference was not present for several hours in the early evening, presumably because whatever is causing the interference was turned off at this time.

* If the modem syncs when this source of interference is not present, downstream sync is at approx. 8Mbps. When the interference is present downstream sync drops to around 5.1 to 5.4Mbps. In the case of the former when the non-continuous interference becomes present the SNRM drops to 4db. The the latter case when the non-continuous interference stops the SNRM increases to 19-20db.

* Other than the +/- 8db SNR jump, the downstream SNR remains very consistent with no real changes over a 24 hour period.  :cool:

* The upstream SNRM is also fairly consistent - it is slightly affected by the non-continuous interference with a roughly 1db increase in noise. It is syncing continuously and reliably at 1Mbps.  :cool:

* From observing my QLN graphs both with this non-continuous interference being present and not being present, and comparing them to other ADSL users on MDWS, two things stick out for me - first, my noise floor is fairly flat & consistent with no major "spikes" with it being roughly -110db up to around tone 250, then falling smoothly down to about -123db at tone 400 before rising again to about -113db at tone 500. Second, despite the noise floor being fairly smooth, it appears that my line is rather noisy in the sense that other MDWS ADSL stats indicate a general noise floor (excluding noise spikes) quieter than this, in many cases down to -140db. It appears that this noise is wideband - however what is noticeable is that this noise is at its highest in the downstream below 1.1MHz - while the ADSL service I have is an ADSL2+ LLU product, my exchange is otherwise a 20CN with a standard ADSL1 service through BT Wholesale. Possibly the case that I have significant cross-talk problems?  :( :(

* Looking at the Hlog graphs, I may have came to the conclusion that the MW broadcast station on 549kHz is not significantly causing interference to tone 127 and that the reason for this tone having no bitload is a co-incidence. A MW broadcast normally has a sideband on each side of the carrier between 4.5kHz to 7kHz wide and would surely interfere with adjacent tones if the radio signal caused interference, but it's not the case here. I don't really know the reason why some bit tones missing while adjacent tones are perfectly fine, I can only think that something on the line is causing very narrow notches on specific frequencies. Again I don't see these narrow notches on other ADSL Hlog graphs on MDWS, or at least not to the same extent.

* My downstream attenuation is 28db. According to the maximum speed calculator on site here at www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/max_speed_calc.php it gives the following results...

   * Downstream attenuation: 28db
   * Approx line length: 2km
   
   * dslMAX (20CN): 8128kbps - IP Profile: 7150 kbps
   * BT 21CN WBC & adsl2+: 16512kbps - IP Profile: 14564 kbps
   * adsl2+ (LLU): 16512 kbps - Throughput: 14613kbps
   
...and also another calculator for estimating ADSL line speed... http://coolwebhome.co.uk/calc/index.php?param=RG4gODE5MCBEbiAyOCBEbiAxMi4xIERuIDI=#res

It appears to me that my phone line is seriously hobbled for ADSL speeds where even at the best sync speeds it's achieving only about half the downstream throughput it is potentially capable of.  :-\

* I've attached a screen grab of the Broadband Exchange & Line Checker - because I'm on an LLU it doesn't give back more accurate stats like estimated FTTC speeds but when my phone number was with Plusnet (and hence on BT's network) it was returning almost the same results for LOS & road distance from my exchange (Fintona, NIFIN).

Now I'm wondering what to do next as I've two separate issues to overcome, namely combating the non-continuous interference source, and IMO the generally noisy line levels. The former would seem to be slightly easier to deal with than the latter but would almost certainly need Openreach involved.  :-\ :-\
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kitzuser87430

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Re: Poor ADSL2+ speed rates?
« Reply #26 on: April 09, 2016, 10:52:50 AM »

Looking on mdws I see you have no bitswaps....is this something you have checked your equipment for....If you have,I would suggest contacting your ISP and eventually getting a "lift and shift"
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sheepfarmer

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Re: Poor ADSL2+ speed rates?
« Reply #27 on: April 09, 2016, 12:07:41 PM »

Looking on mdws I see you have no bitswaps....is this something you have checked your equipment for....If you have,I would suggest contacting your ISP and eventually getting a "lift and shift"
Bitswaps do appear to be happening with me - for whatever reason they aren't showing up on mdws?

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sheepfarmer

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Re: Poor ADSL2+ speed rates?
« Reply #28 on: April 09, 2016, 01:03:39 PM »

Well I've tried using both the BT80A RF3 filter and the one I linked to in the wireless waffle blog in my opening post and neither have been effective in suppressing the non-continious noise source within the last 24 hours it has been present.  >:(

I'd love to get a hold of this f**king device that is causing the noise floor to degrade as it's clearly impacting on my potential downstream sync speeds (not that they are amazing otherwise but they are at least quite usable) and I'd be pretty certain it would be the same for many close by as well though how many I don't know, could be less than a handful or a few hundred. Those on FTTC packages probably aren't likely to notice (like I had once done) as much as those with ADSL, many of whom probably don't realise or care that their speeds could be better.

Is it time to give up on what I can do myself and speak to my ISP to try and possibly get Openreach to investigate?

Edit: I was just off the phone to my ISP (Phone Co-op) and in the meantime they've rest the SNRM margin to 9db. I'll see how this works out.
« Last Edit: April 09, 2016, 02:25:16 PM by sheepfarmer »
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burakkucat

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Re: Poor ADSL2+ speed rates?
« Reply #29 on: April 09, 2016, 06:32:19 PM »

That will be the target SNRM which has been set to 9 dB.
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