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Author Topic: IP profile and sync speed.  (Read 16389 times)

WWWombat

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Re: IP profile and sync speed.
« Reply #45 on: April 05, 2016, 02:10:37 PM »

I'm back, and have proper access to stats, so will take a look at @NS's stats with a bit more rigour later. This thread has moved on somewhat, so there's a lot to catch up on.

In the meantime, can I just point out that:
a)  "IP profile" is a term used by BT wholesale that is used to distinguish between the raw throughput of a line, from the encapsulated "IP date" rate carried in amongst the framing overhead.
b) Framing overhead represents the overhead bytes that surround the IP packets when sent across VDSL2; Some are visible and subtracted from the sync speed (such as the PPPoE framing bytes), while some are less visible, and subtracted before the sync speed is calculated (such as the FEC overhead); My work before the holiday was to figure where the framing overheads for the G.INP DPUs fell within this.

All ISP's (including BT Wholesale) encounter some form of framing overhead, of both types, across the Openreach FTTC product - it is inescapable. Dray's number show that an overhead exists for Sky as much as anyone else.

However, it remains only BT Wholesale that give this overhead a name - IP profile - and then sets rules about what the ISP must do with that information.

Perhaps both Sky and TT have a name, and rules, but they aren't publicised.
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Dray

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Re: IP profile and sync speed.
« Reply #46 on: April 05, 2016, 02:31:13 PM »

I see in SIN 498 a singular reference to VDSL2 net data rate and I wonder if this is what BT refers to as the IP Profile?

Note: Where the modem is an integrated device with PPP and/or DHCP functionality, it is recommended that change in state of the VDSL2 physical layer also triggers change of state of PPP/DHCP state.  For example, on transition to “showtime” this should re-initialise the PPP session and/or force DHCP to renew.  This will ensure the BRAS is informed of the new VDSL2 net data rate via the Intermediate Agent
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ejs

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Re: IP profile and sync speed.
« Reply #47 on: April 05, 2016, 03:14:26 PM »

Net Data Rate, or Actual Net Data Rate (for clarity alongside Attainable Net Data Rate) is the more technical term for what is commonly called "sync speed". It's "net" in the sense that the FEC overheads aren't included in the figure.
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Dray

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Re: IP profile and sync speed.
« Reply #48 on: April 05, 2016, 03:32:08 PM »

That's interesting. So the BRAS is told the sync speed. I wonder where and how is the IP Profile is calculated?
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Chrysalis

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Re: IP profile and sync speed.
« Reply #49 on: April 05, 2016, 04:43:39 PM »

I'm back, and have proper access to stats, so will take a look at @NS's stats with a bit more rigour later. This thread has moved on somewhat, so there's a lot to catch up on.

In the meantime, can I just point out that:
a)  "IP profile" is a term used by BT wholesale that is used to distinguish between the raw throughput of a line, from the encapsulated "IP date" rate carried in amongst the framing overhead.
b) Framing overhead represents the overhead bytes that surround the IP packets when sent across VDSL2; Some are visible and subtracted from the sync speed (such as the PPPoE framing bytes), while some are less visible, and subtracted before the sync speed is calculated (such as the FEC overhead); My work before the holiday was to figure where the framing overheads for the G.INP DPUs fell within this.

All ISP's (including BT Wholesale) encounter some form of framing overhead, of both types, across the Openreach FTTC product - it is inescapable. Dray's number show that an overhead exists for Sky as much as anyone else.

However, it remains only BT Wholesale that give this overhead a name - IP profile - and then sets rules about what the ISP must do with that information.

Perhaps both Sky and TT have a name, and rules, but they aren't publicised.

There is overhead's, but the protocol sky use has smaller overheads, is nothing to dispute really just plain fact.

The IP profile is something artificially implemented by BT wholesale to rate limit traffic to each line as it is something BT have long believed necessary on their services.  It is separate to the natural overhead of the connection protocol which is PPPoE for BTw based FTTC services.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2016, 04:46:14 PM by Chrysalis »
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NewtronStar

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Re: IP profile and sync speed.
« Reply #50 on: April 05, 2016, 05:28:16 PM »

Chry could you do a speedtest/throughput test and use the formula to calculate your ratio
IP profile/throughput / sync rate X 100 =

Please
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Chrysalis

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Re: IP profile and sync speed.
« Reply #51 on: April 05, 2016, 05:37:30 PM »

using which speedtester?

I have no ip profile as I am not on the BTw network.

But I will do your request if I understand it properly.

--edit--

Ok newt i assumed you meant the BTw tester, I was surprised I am able to run it, however it seems to be broken as it reports what I am attaching.

Sync speed is 72089
« Last Edit: April 05, 2016, 05:41:00 PM by Chrysalis »
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ejs

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Re: IP profile and sync speed.
« Reply #52 on: April 05, 2016, 05:48:50 PM »

I recommend downloading a large enough file so that the download takes a few minutes, while making sure that the download is running at maximum speed. Then with the file size, time taken, and your MTU, we could factor in the overheads for the TCP and IP layers to get a value comparable to the BTw IP profile.
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NewtronStar

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Re: IP profile and sync speed.
« Reply #53 on: April 05, 2016, 06:56:05 PM »


Ok newt i assumed you meant the BTw tester, I was surprised I am able to run it, however it seems to be broken as it reports what I am attaching.

Sync speed is 72089

 >:D Nope just do a speedtest no need to go to the BTw tester web site there are plenty of them to get your throughput speed, if your your not sure how to do this I will guide your hand  :P
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Chrysalis

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Re: IP profile and sync speed.
« Reply #54 on: April 05, 2016, 08:41:02 PM »

A speedtest isnt going to give a 100% accurate throughput information, tho there will be variables but regardless here it is.  Note i have downstream and upstream QoS active on my router which I am not prepared to disable right now.

So no idea what you doing :) but will provide the data you want.



sync speed is still same as before.

Ok so this is just an experiment to try and compare overheads?
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Chrysalis

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Re: IP profile and sync speed.
« Reply #55 on: April 05, 2016, 08:47:01 PM »

ok here you go, I effectively disabled downstream policing by raising its limits to very high levels, but upload was still under QoS.



du meter hit 8.4 (at max 79999 sync on BTw it used to hit 9.3).
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NewtronStar

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Re: IP profile and sync speed.
« Reply #56 on: April 05, 2016, 09:36:46 PM »

ok here you go, I effectively disabled downstream policing by raising its limits to very high levels, but upload was still under QoS.



du meter hit 8.4 (at max 79999 sync on BTw it used to hit 9.3).

Thanks I'll take the higher throughput reading of 67920 Kbps
67920 / 72089 X 100 = 94.21% a we bit shy of 96% by 2%

And thanks again for doing this  :)
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Chrysalis

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Re: IP profile and sync speed.
« Reply #57 on: April 05, 2016, 09:58:26 PM »

tests indicate overall overheads are very very close, actually maybe slightly favouring BTw.

My comment regarding overheads earlier was PPPoE vs MER.

The issue I have with this is that speedtesting is only a guideline not a accurate science and I didnt do the same test on a BTw isp, so we dont have the same hardware in the tests. (This is why I mentioned du meter as that is software I had installed in both cases).
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NewtronStar

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Re: IP profile and sync speed.
« Reply #58 on: April 05, 2016, 10:44:45 PM »

My feeling those ratio's will start to drop off once the Exchange has reached it's limit with broadband users the next stage is to reduce the throughput slightly for each user a way to alleviate congestion at the exchange.

It may even come under the contention ratio rule but this time it's not the ISP it's the Exchange  which may need upgrading because of over demand.

This is all hypothetical of course
« Last Edit: April 05, 2016, 10:47:10 PM by NewtronStar »
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WWWombat

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Re: IP profile and sync speed.
« Reply #59 on: April 06, 2016, 12:53:25 AM »

I'm back, and have proper access to stats, so will take a look at @NS's stats with a bit more rigour later. This thread has moved on somewhat, so there's a lot to catch up on.

Ho him. @ns switched to a different modem, so no longer appears in the drop down list of users - I can't see any graphs at all.

No matter ... I work best from the raw stats. I just need @ns to post exemplars from different periods, alongside the IP profiles that applied at the time. Sorry for the hassle  :-[
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