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Author Topic: Fault On Line At My Nan's House  (Read 8800 times)

William Grimsley

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Re: Fault On Line At My Nan's House
« Reply #15 on: March 08, 2016, 06:33:20 PM »

Thank you for those images.

Numbers 1 & 2 show us that both sockets are Line Jacks and that there is no NTE5 visible.

Numbers 3 & 4 show us that neither of those Line Jacks is a primary. I.e. Neither of those sockets is the "master socket".

There is one thing you can do. I refer to image number three. There are two wires, coloured orange (each with a white stripe) connected to IDC3 (top right hand). Very carefully pull them both out of that connector. Do not cut them. Once they have been disconnected, just neatly fold them back with the other non-connected wires.

There might be some other means of providing the correct termination of the circuit, perhaps another hidden socket which is an NTE5. So please have a good search. Start at the point where the line enters the property. Is there an external junction box of any kind? Can you see where the cable enters?

No problem, burakkcat.

I do have some more information that might help. I remember my Nan telling me that there are only two other sockets but they have been phyiscally disconnected. Both of these however are line jacks. I cannot seem to find where the cable comes into the house but me and my dad will have another really good search around and see if we can find either the cable and/or the junction box.

I just want to make sure, is pulling the two wires connected to IDC3 going to cause any more possible problems?

Again, just to make this clear. Both the sockets and the wiring were installed back in 1989. I am somehow doubting that there were any test sockets back then? Also, would a better solution be to move the router to the socket in the first photo and plug in a powerline in and connect the router to that and then the YouView box into the other device?

Many thanks for your help!
« Last Edit: March 08, 2016, 08:35:30 PM by William Grimsley »
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Black Sheep

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Re: Fault On Line At My Nan's House
« Reply #16 on: March 08, 2016, 08:07:25 PM »

It was Burakucat who gave the in-depth reply, William. Just a heads-up so the right person is thanked.
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William Grimsley

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Re: Fault On Line At My Nan's House
« Reply #17 on: March 08, 2016, 08:35:43 PM »

It was Burakucat who gave the in-depth reply, William. Just a heads-up so the right person is thanked.

Whoops, my mistake...
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burakkucat

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Re: Fault On Line At My Nan's House
« Reply #18 on: March 08, 2016, 10:32:38 PM »

I forget the precise year when the NTE5/A was first released . . . It would definitely be in the 1980s. If I am remembering correctly, it was in 1981 when the plug and socket concept replaced the directly wired telephone installation.

If you can find the location of those two other sockets and then take a look behind them, photographing any wiring that may still be in the backing boxes, it may help us to understand how things have been modified over the years.

IDC3 is just the connection for what was generally called the "bell wire". In a master socket, be it a LJU (line jack unit) or an NTE5, there is a shunt connected across the pair. The shunt consists of a 470 kOhm resistor and a 1.8 microFarad capacitor connected in series. The "bell wire" was connected to the junction of those two components and then extended to every other secondary (extension) socket in a daisy-chain fashion. With modern telephones, it serves no useful purpose and can be the source of poor broadband performance. So the advice is always given to disconnect the "bell wire". (If you critically look at image number 4 you will see that the bell wire is not connected to screw terminal no. 3 -- it has already been disconnected. (Or perhaps it was never connected.))

As for where to connect the modem/router, it is currently in the optimum location, at the end of the "daisy chain", when individual micro-filters are being used (rather than a centralised filter, a.k.a. a SSFP). As for powerline adaptors, please don't consider using them. (I regard those devices as pure evil!)
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William Grimsley

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Re: Fault On Line At My Nan's House
« Reply #19 on: March 11, 2016, 01:11:49 PM »

Ok, I'm going to do an alternate method and use a Devolo Powerline setup because I have a feeling that the master socket may be in the garage. Unfortunately, my Nan goes to jumble sales so trying to remove all the rubbish out of the garage is going to take hours. So, what I'm going to do is connect the router to the socket which is the one in the first photo. Then, I'll use one of the Devolo powerline adapter's and connect an ethernet cable from that into the router. Then, I'll use the other Devolo powerline adapter and connect an ethernet cable from that into the YouView box.
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William Grimsley

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Re: Fault On Line At My Nan's House
« Reply #20 on: March 11, 2016, 04:43:54 PM »

Ok, so I've done that and all is working fine. So, then I ring TalkTalk to ask them to reset the line, the guy on the end of the phone doesn't understand, so he does some line tests and sees that there is a fault (god knows where he got that from) and booked another engineer visit for 22/03/2016. Hopefully, this time it will be an Openreach not a Qube engineer so he will do the work properly and I'll be able to tell him what the problems are.
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William Grimsley

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Re: Fault On Line At My Nan's House
« Reply #21 on: March 11, 2016, 04:45:21 PM »

Luckily, this visit won't come with a charge of £65 and it will be free.
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William Grimsley

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Re: Fault On Line At My Nan's House
« Reply #22 on: March 12, 2016, 12:12:26 PM »

I was going to ask, is my setup ok or should have I removed the bell wire? The extension socket next to the YouView box doesn't have any wire connected to IDC 3 so I presume removing the wire from the IDC 3 on the other extension socket wouldn't have done anything anyway. What I forgot to say was that we found where the line came into the house (I walked around outside the property to find a metal flap on the patio with "BT" written on it). So, I went back in side and found the cable but there was no master socket. All I could find was the cable going up into a hole in the ceiling. Anyway, there was no place to put a router there as there was no plug socket nearby.
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William Grimsley

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Re: Fault On Line At My Nan's House
« Reply #23 on: March 20, 2016, 01:30:13 PM »

Hi guys,

So, after I managed to request a SNR margin of 6 dB through the TalkTalk Community last week, the line has been stable with an ADSL line speed (kbps) of Down: 19477 and Up: 1020 at Line attenuation (dB): 16.7.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2016, 01:38:48 PM by William Grimsley »
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