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Author Topic: I have G.INP on ECI  (Read 227916 times)

skyeci

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Re: I have G.INP on ECI
« Reply #135 on: March 18, 2016, 07:36:27 PM »

I take it all who have seen G.INP being enabled on a ECI cabinet are using the HG612 or compatible modem with telnet rather than a ECI modem locked or HH5A as they won't show up the G.INP data.

My question will G.INP work on an ECI cabinet with a ECI modem or a HH5A


I am on 8800nl as hg612 gave me loads of errors and packet loss from the trials I did. Latency improved again today now at 11ms.

NewtronStar

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Re: I have G.INP on ECI
« Reply #136 on: March 18, 2016, 07:47:55 PM »

I've also swapped between all three with G.INP always being shown as active on the HG612.

That is good testing S.S and I tend to go with you and mikez because why enable G.INP on a ECI cabinet if those ECI or HH5A FTTC modems are unable to make use of it downstream only that is the upstream seems like a grey area for the moment  :-\

I am just so glad to see ECI cabinets get G.INP have waited over 1 year to see this event  :)
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kitz

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Re: I have G.INP on ECI
« Reply #137 on: March 18, 2016, 08:00:48 PM »

Would someone like to check and see if another way of identifying g.inp via the IPprofile still applies on the ECI cabs in the same way as it does for the Huawei cabs.

From IPprofile

Quote
Calculated as 96.79% of the sync speed or 96.69% for g.inp lines.

You can find out your IProfile from http://speedtest.btwholesale.com/

 
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S.Stephenson

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Re: I have G.INP on ECI
« Reply #138 on: March 18, 2016, 08:18:19 PM »

HH5a sync = 64138
IP profile = 62080

Ratio = 96.79%

It is 96.69 with G.INP enabled on the HG612, so it certainly points to it being off....

Could it be reduced noise due to G.INP?
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Dray

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Re: I have G.INP on ECI
« Reply #139 on: March 18, 2016, 09:30:07 PM »

Is the router responsible for updating the IP Profile?
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ejs

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Re: I have G.INP on ECI
« Reply #140 on: March 18, 2016, 09:55:49 PM »

I take it all who have seen G.INP being enabled on a ECI cabinet are using the HG612 or compatible modem with telnet rather than a ECI modem locked or HH5A as they won't show up the G.INP data.

My question will G.INP work on an ECI cabinet with a ECI modem or a HH5A

Yes, I'm using an HG612. Given that openreach assume that most users of an ECI cab have an ECI modem I would have thought that the ECI modems would have had a firmware update to support G.INP. I still have my ECI modem but I'm reluctant to try it, just in case I lose G.INP and don't get it back for a while.

Yes, I would have thought the ECI modems and HH5A would have received a firmware update to support G.INP in both directions. But it appears that this did not happen, and no-one knows why not. OpenWRT running on either of those devices can do it, so I think it isn't a hardware limitation.
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kitz

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Re: I have G.INP on ECI
« Reply #141 on: March 18, 2016, 10:35:02 PM »

Is the router responsible for updating the IP Profile?

The RAP part of RAMBO does it.  When you sync up, the RAP function sends the info to the BRAS control.

Sometimes there is a slight delay and it's why bt recommend something like 60 seconds if you switch off your router to ensure that the system recognises a resync and change of sync speed.

There's more info and diagram on this page
http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/DLM_system.htm#RAP
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Bald_Eagle1

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Re: I have G.INP on ECI
« Reply #142 on: March 18, 2016, 11:03:44 PM »

I have now obtained some raw stats from skynewb in order to try to compare G.INP from an ECI cabinet DSLAM against G.INP from a Huawei DSLAM (mine).

See the attached montages.

We already know from testing that skynewb's connection is quite significantly affected by crosstalk from his neighbour, so I'm a little surprised to see zero LEFTRS counts.

His neighbour uses a locked ECI modem though, so we don't know for sure whether G.INP is now active on that connection or not.

« Last Edit: March 18, 2016, 11:14:39 PM by Bald_Eagle1 »
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Bald_Eagle1

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Re: I have G.INP on ECI
« Reply #143 on: March 18, 2016, 11:10:23 PM »

Raw stats for comparison attached.

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NewtronStar

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Re: I have G.INP on ECI
« Reply #144 on: March 19, 2016, 12:12:51 AM »

Any info into why the ECI cabs are using an interleaving depth of 1 when in G.INP mode it would seem the ECI G.INP looks better than the Huawei G.INP at a glance.
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kitz

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Re: I have G.INP on ECI
« Reply #145 on: March 19, 2016, 12:42:27 PM »

Nope sorry.
They obviously will have different config files..  because by all accounts upstream g.inp isnt going to happen any time soon.

When I have a clear head Im going to look at the raw stats BE provided to see if I can see any other differences.
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WWWombat

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Re: I have G.INP on ECI
« Reply #146 on: March 19, 2016, 05:17:11 PM »

I've taken a break from fixing my server, and taken a look at MDWS for the new ECI G.INP lines.

All looks reasonably well... The retransmission counters show it to be being used, and in every case, it has reduced CRCs to, or near zero and ESs to zero. There is a variety of impacts on FECs, depending on how the line was behaving before activation

For the two lines that had DLM intervention before, skyECI and MikeZ, the FEC rate reduced considerably. I presume the deactivation of interleaving means that the FEC process became less effective, and that more failures fell through. However, those extra failures are now mopped up successfully by the retransmission process.

The two lines that had no DLM intervention, S.Step and jamesfoley, both had no FECs (no surprise if the FEC process is deactivated, as ought to be standard), and low/no CRC and ES counts before activation. After retransmission was turned on, alongside FEC activation, jamesfoley's line starts up with a low level of FECs, a low level of retransmission, and the loss of all CRCs and ESs. S.Step's line is better, as it starts and ends with no CRCs and no FECs, and show a low level of retransmission happening. Strangely, it counted a non-zero ES level, beforehand, even with zero CRCs. Of note for S.Step is the sudden appearance of prolonged spikes of upstream FECs.

That leaves two further lines, Simon194 and daveesh1. These two lines do not show DLM intervention beforehand, with a zero INP value and no interleaving. However, both lines showed FEC counts even before G.INP activation, suggesting that the modems had chosen to turn on FEC anyway. In both cases, activation of G.INP results in FECs continuing, and both CRCs and ESs dropping to zero, alongside some use of retransmission.

This thread contains an amount of speculation about why the downstream speed has changed in the way it has, some up some down. I have no magic answers, but I suspect part of the answer comes down to the relative changes to the FEC settings, and the relative amount of bandwidth being "stolen" for the FEC parity overhead. We'd need to see a lot more of the before and after raw framing data to figure that out.

We can do a little bit of analysis, though.
- First, we can see that DLM has used 4 different INP values - 46, 47, 49, 50. Presumably ordered from best to worst.
- jamesfoley's line has INP=46, and gets FEC settings of R=6, N=185. This means 3% of the line's bandwidth is now being used for this small amount of FEC alongside retransmission.
- skyECI/skeynewb's line has INP=50, and gets FEC settings of R=12, N=240. This means 5% of the line's bandwidth is gobbled up by overhead.

With a sample size of two, it is hard to reach proper conclusions, but it looks like higher INP values make for higher FEC overheads.

@BE
Skynewb's retransmission usage is higher than the others, and has a few more spikes, but doesn't appear that heavy. I'm not sure how much heavier it would need to be to start registering LEFTRS.
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tbailey2

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Re: I have G.INP on ECI
« Reply #147 on: March 20, 2016, 06:40:45 AM »

Two more this morning

shadow4dog was not interleaved, 66 > 68 actual

jamesmayl was interleaved (1200) 64.3 > 70.6 actual

Watching eventful F1 while opening birthday presents and sipping a cup of tea  :)
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Tony
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skyeci

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Re: I have G.INP on ECI
« Reply #148 on: March 20, 2016, 07:11:44 AM »

Hmm second re-sync. Larger drop in upstream this time. Higher Latency has returned. Not so good...

shadow4dog

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Re: I have G.INP on ECI
« Reply #149 on: March 20, 2016, 08:31:05 AM »

Watching eventful F1 while opening birthday presents and sipping a cup of tea  :)

Happy birthday Tony!

Interestingly, my BT line with a HH5 connected and a much lower sync (61Mb vs 66Mb) hasn't been G.INP'd

Tim

« Last Edit: March 20, 2016, 08:36:56 AM by shadow4dog »
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