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Author Topic: WAN Disconnects Caused by Asus RT-AC68U Router?  (Read 17497 times)

Chunkers

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WAN Disconnects Caused by Asus RT-AC68U Router?
« on: March 04, 2016, 10:01:09 PM »

I am happy to say I think I have my data up and running on MyDSLstats which I think is pretty awesome  :)

I have had a lot of problems with my line and would value any insights into the data and whether I have a case to try and get BT to 'fix' it?  I am pretty sure there is nothing wrong with my house wiring - I just had it all entirely replaced.

When I do a quiet line test on my phone there are infrequent, but quite noticeable, pops and a constant but fairly loud background hiss.

The honest truth is that I don't really understand the data, is it trying to tell me anything?  Graphs like this one intrigue me as I really don't understand the error related info at all, presumably a certain amount of errors is fine .............. ?



o7

Chunks
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gt94sss2

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Re: WAN Disconnects Caused by Asus RT-AC68U Router?
« Reply #1 on: March 04, 2016, 11:16:14 PM »

When I do a quiet line test on my phone there are infrequent, but quite noticeable, pops and a constant but fairly loud background hiss.

If you get this - especially from your master/test socket [ideally using a corded phone] - then report it to whoever you pay your line rental to as a voice fault (noise on the line)
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kitz

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Re: WAN Disconnects Caused by Asus RT-AC68U Router?
« Reply #2 on: March 05, 2016, 02:08:04 AM »

Hi -   This isnt a detailed report, just a 'quick' half hour analysis.   


SNRm is usually what we look at first as it gives a good indication how your line performs over the course of the day.

Looking at your data over the past few days, there appears to be some sort of pattern emerging. -
Your line is perfectly fine between the hours of circa 7am and 5.30 pm.   Things start to go downhill a bit afer 6pm and are at their worst at around 9:30.

Next I looked at your cumulative Err/Secs.  Those seem to show a fairly steady growth throughout the day, perhaps a bit steeper after 6pm especially on the 4th, but nothing too dramatic.

Your attenuation shows that you are apprx 2.7km from the exchange and if all was perfect then you should be looking at a max sync of around 10.6 Mbps

From your bit loading - Indicates this is an adsl/2+ line -   I see some nasty spots - more on this later.

Your hlog looks good - No bridge taps in the wiring.  Actually looks good for a longish line and a lovely smooth decline over distance, suggesting no obvious problems in the physical wiring.

QLN -  hmmm, some nice spiking :/  More on this later because I could practically overlay this with your bit loading.

QLN indicates crosstalk - or in somecases EMI.  From the bit loading, your line is noisy in places I wouldnt expect to see unless there is some sort of interference.   My gut reaction is saying EMI - coupled with your SNRm its something that is only switched on after 5:30 at night and turned off at 7am in the morning.  QLN is a snapshot in time and can only be taken during sync, your last sync would be just entering the noisy period. It would be interesting to see a QLN taken during 9-5 on a working day but no matter, I think I have sufficient to go off to show the problematic areas.   Noise at those particular tones are what is causing low bit loading at certain frequencies, which is why you arent quite capable of attaining your max speed.  The round bumps at 700 -1200 kHz onwards also to me suggest EMI.

EMI/REIN is very hard to track down, but IMHO there is something there causing this which notably gets worse outside of working hours.    I have no idea what is causing it, but 'something' is definitely there.   Because of the timing then getting BT to do something about it is going to be exceedingly difficult, because it looks line your line is ok during 9-5 and any tests they run during these hours will likely show good. :(

If it was me Id be racking my brains to find out if anything gets switched on during the mentioned hours.   Street lighting,  central heating, PIR lighting, faulty monitors, the list is practically endless.   I'd also check the frequencies against here to make sure its not a local transmitter or radio HAM.    Sorry its got late and Im too tired atm to zoom in on any actual tones to check against any possible local radio stations (aside from the fact I dont know your location). 
 
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kitz

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Re: WAN Disconnects Caused by Asus RT-AC68U Router?
« Reply #3 on: March 05, 2016, 02:16:51 AM »

When I do a quiet line test on my phone there are infrequent, but quite noticeable, pops and a constant but fairly loud background hiss.

If you get this - especially from your master/test socket [ideally using a corded phone] - then report it to whoever you pay your line rental to as a voice fault (noise on the line)

I agree, however just having looked at chunkers hlog and QLN...  and taking into consideration the intermediateness of SNRm... whilst there could be a budding HR fault, atm Im more erring towards EMI of some sort.

It would be useful if chunkers could perform a couple of other tests just for the sake of elimination:-   

Ring the landline whilst monitoring the SNRM and see if it suddenly takes a hit when 1) the phone is rings 2) the phone is in use.   
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Chunkers

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Re: WAN Disconnects Caused by Asus RT-AC68U Router?
« Reply #4 on: March 05, 2016, 02:22:19 PM »

You guys are super cool, thanks for the insights.  My line is 1.37Km from the telegraph pole (DP234) to the Cabinet (PCP1) - shorter as the crow flies :) I know it has the dreaded aluminium overhead lines so am expecting it to be rubbish but was wondering whether I have additional issues.

I still see weird drop-outs which are losses in service but not logged as modem dropouts on my VMG8324 (maybe I have the logging screwed up).  Here is one today :

Quote from: Says my Asus router but not my modem
Mar  5 11:52:19 pppd[510]: Connection terminated.
Mar  5 11:52:19 pppd[510]: Modem hangup
Mar  5 11:52:29 pppd[510]: Connected to 00:30:88:00:00:02 via interface eth0
Mar  5 11:52:29 pppd[510]: Connect: ppp0 <--> eth0
Mar  5 11:53:06 pppd[510]: Connection terminated.
Mar  5 11:53:06 pppd[510]: Modem hangup
Mar  5 11:53:16 pppd[510]: Connected to 00:30:88:00:00:02 via interface eth0
Mar  5 11:53:16 pppd[510]: Connect: ppp0 <--> eth0
Mar  5 11:53:53 pppd[510]: Connection terminated.
Mar  5 11:53:53 pppd[510]: Modem hangup
Mar  5 11:54:03 pppd[510]: Connected to 00:30:88:00:00:02 via interface eth0
Mar  5 11:54:03 pppd[510]: Connect: ppp0 <--> eth0
Mar  5 11:54:40 pppd[510]: Connection terminated.
Mar  5 11:54:40 pppd[510]: Modem hangup
Mar  5 11:54:50 pppd[510]: Connected to 00:30:88:00:00:02 via interface eth0
Mar  5 11:54:50 pppd[510]: Connect: ppp0 <--> eth0
Mar  5 11:54:52 pppd[510]: CHAP authentication succeeded
Mar  5 11:54:52 pppd[510]: peer from calling number 00:30:88:00:00:02 authorized
Mar  5 11:54:52 miniupnpd[26144]: Failed to get IP for interface ppp0
Mar  5 11:54:52 miniupnpd[26144]: SendNATPMPPublicAddressChangeNotification: cannot get public IP address, stopping
Mar  5 11:54:52 miniupnpd[26144]: Failed to get IP for interface ppp0
Mar  5 11:54:52 miniupnpd[26144]: SendNATPMPPublicAddressChangeNotification: cannot get public IP address, stopping
Mar  5 11:54:52 miniupnpd[26144]: Failed to get IP for interface ppp0
Mar  5 11:54:52 miniupnpd[26144]: SendNATPMPPublicAddressChangeNotification: cannot get public IP address, stopping
Mar  5 11:54:52 pppd[510]: local  IP address 217.155.196.87
Mar  5 11:54:52 pppd[510]: remote IP address 62.3.84.19
Mar  5 11:54:52 rc_service: ip-up 31865:notify_rc start_firewall
Mar  5 11:54:52 dnsmasq-dhcp[442]: not giving name localhost to the DHCP lease of 192.168.1.25 because the name exists in /etc/hosts with address 127.0.0.1
Mar  5 11:54:52 start_nat_rules: apply the nat_rules(/tmp/nat_rules_ppp0_eth0)!
Mar  5 11:54:53 wan: finish adding multi routes
Mar  5 11:54:53 WAN Connection: WAN was restored.

Anyway really appreciate your feedback and stuff, I will be pondering.

Chunks
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kitz

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Re: WAN Disconnects Caused by Asus RT-AC68U Router?
« Reply #5 on: March 06, 2016, 04:33:40 PM »

Quote
My line is 1.37Km from the telegraph pole (DP234) to the Cabinet (PCP1) - shorter as the crow flies

Just checking.   Your line is adsl2+?   
I was going off the bitloading ending at 31 upstream and before 512 downstream.

Re location, its b*cat who is the genius when it comes to working out location based on interference from certain radio transmitters.  I'm afraid I dont quite have his patience to do it working backwards :/

Quote
but not logged as modem dropouts on my VMG8324 (maybe I have the logging screwed up).

To turn on logging go to:-

Maintenance > Log Setting.
Enable Syslog Logging and set Mode to Local File   (iirc its set to remote by default which is why it may not be showing)

You then need to tick the relevant options what you want to show.   
Below are the settings I currently have, but feel free to suit to your own prefs. 

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burakkucat

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Re: WAN Disconnects Caused by Asus RT-AC68U Router?
« Reply #6 on: March 06, 2016, 07:57:42 PM »

When this thread was initially begun, I reconfigured the "circuit to be monitored" (using MDWS) to be that of Chunkers.

My usual configuration is to view the plots of SNRM, CRCs, FECs, QLN and Hlog.

It was immediately obvious that the circuit is subject to a 2 dB swing of the SNRM over a 24 hour period.

The CRC/minute never exceeded 290 for the DS and 23 US for the last 24 hour period (as of 1825 hours on 06 March 2016). Those figures are not excessive, so I was puzzled by the "colour of the traffic lights". Amber, red & red for the DS error second. Green, green & amber for the US error seconds. Green, green, & green for the retrain indicator.

When the FEC plot was seen to be a straight line, centred on zero, it became clear that the circuit is operating in fast-path mode. Surely interleaving would be far more appropriate? Perhaps this should be raised with Zen, the ISP. Changing from the FEC plot to that of the interleaving depth showed another straight line, centred on one. That confirms my suspicion. The circuit has been locked into fast-path mode and until it has been reconfigured to operate in interleaved mode, things will not improve. I then took a quick look at the error seconds plot and then the severely errored seconds plot. The latter two plots explained the "colour of the traffic lights".

The QLN plot showed a number of peaks, all related to RF ingress and probably due to licensed broadcast transmitters, both home and possibly abroad.

The Hlog plot was reasonable for an ADSL2+ circuit. All was reasonable up to about tone 400 and then decay gradually became obvious. The plot gives an impression that up to tone 400 there will be adequate data carried on each sub-carrier. Tones 401 - 512 should really be disregarded as serious data sub-carriers.

Considering the RF peaks, as shown in the QLN plot --

Sub-carrier        Frequency (kHz)

     46                  198
    161                  694
    198                  854
    211                  910
    244                 1052
    282                 1216
    338                 1458
    367                 1583
    475                 2048
    495                 2135


Cross-referencing the above with data available from UK Long Wave and Medium Wave Transmitters allows us to identify the majority of the RF sources --

Frequency (kHz)        Broadcast

      198               Radio 4
      693               Radio 5
      855               Radio Norfolk or Devon or Lancashire
      909               Radio 5
     1053               Talk Sport
     1215               Virgin AM
     1458               Sunrise Radio or BBC Asian Network or Big 1458 AM
                        or Radio Devon or Radio Newcastle or Radio Cumbria
     1584               Radio Nottingham or BBC Hereford & Worcester
                        or Tay AM or London Turkish Radio


Taking a copy of the map (from the aforementioned website), with all the relevant transmitting sites plotted thereupon (attached below), will allow Chunkers location to be tentatively deduced. This last step of the process is left for other interested Kitizens to perform.  ;)
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Chunkers

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Re: WAN Disconnects Caused by Asus RT-AC68U Router?
« Reply #7 on: March 06, 2016, 08:49:39 PM »

Wow,thanks for the analysis.  If I am picking this up right then it seems that the issues are possibly related to local transmitters.  I live in Tenbury Wells, as it happens I am quite close to a number of transmitters including this one huge thing a few miles away also I live near a RADAR station and a number of other transmitter positioned around us.

I really appreciate the info, it is sounding like there is not much I will be able to do about the situation (without upsetting a lot of people!)

Chunks
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kitz

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Re: WAN Disconnects Caused by Asus RT-AC68U Router?
« Reply #8 on: March 07, 2016, 02:02:27 AM »

Quote
The CRC/minute never exceeded 290 for the DS and 23 US for the last 24 hour period (as of 1825 hours on 06 March 2016). Those figures are not excessive, so I was puzzled by the "colour of the traffic lights". Amber, red & red for the DS error second. Green, green & amber for the US error seconds. Green, green, & green for the retrain indicator.

The circuit has been locked into fast-path mode and until it has been reconfigured to operate in interleaved mode, things will not improve.

The WBC DLM is a lot more forgiving than FTTC DLM, especially if you are on Standard profile, which is what Zen uses. 
Chunkers line hasn't received enough Err/Secs for DLM to consider action is necessary. Until that top traffic light goes red, the line will stay on Fast Path.

Quote
The QLN plot showed a number of peaks, all related to RF ingress

Thanks b*cat, :thumbs: I didnt look at the individual tone numbers against  as it got rather late, but as you can see from the shape I was pondering if it could be local transmitters causing problems. 

Now that Chunkers has disclosed his approx location then if I recall a conversation with another kitz member several years ago correctly, then around that area there are loads of transmitters, radars and god knows what else around there- like a whole farm of them.   This certainly does confirm for the lack of bit loading at certain tones and why chunkers isn't able to attain the maximum expected speed.  There isnt much that can be done about that. :(

However, this doesn't quite seem to explain to me the SNRM variance outside of the 8am - 5pm hours.   That timing doesn't quite tie up with normal broadcasting hours of those stations and why I think there may be something else there as well as the local transmitters.  :hmm:
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Chunkers

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Re: WAN Disconnects Caused by Asus RT-AC68U Router?
« Reply #9 on: March 07, 2016, 11:56:53 AM »

Had a good chat with Zen support today after a serious of annoying disconnects last night at around 2120 hrs, I generally find them very helpful and a few things came out of it which align with your advice:

  • On the basis that 99% of the time our line is fine he did a line test but didn't find any issues, the testing he did suggests that the problem is within our house and is SHINE. He then went through the MW radio tuned to 612 Mhz stuff and linked me to the Kitz webpage on REIN - high praise!
  • He offered to add interleaving to our service but advised against it when I revealed we have online gamers in the house-hold, he said it would adversely affect latency
  • He offered to increase our SNR target to 9db to improve stability, i decided to decline this for the moment
  • He also sent me this cool connection graph (I added it at the end of my post)

Frustrating, but I feel like I am making some tiny progress.  I am slightly suspicious that the issue is not internal to my house because everytime I report a fault it feels like all parties are defaulting to the "its not us, its you" so I now have a new house phone line wiring, new socket, new modem and I am still having the same issue!

One question now on my mind is ...  I decided not to "upgrade" to FTTC as the line speeds suggested for me were the same as I currently get on ADSL - is FTTC more or less susceptible to this kind of interference?

Anyways, all the advice on here is really helping me get to grips with the technical side, so thanks all.

EDIT : All I need to do now is find out whether I actually still have a MW radio anywhere!

Chunks

Red = Disconnected for 15 min period
Yellow = At least 1 connection in 15 min period
Green = Solid connection for 15 min period

Note the red sections are almost all times when I have been doing stuff to my equipment.

« Last Edit: March 07, 2016, 12:09:45 PM by Chunkers »
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kitz

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Re: WAN Disconnects Caused by Asus RT-AC68U Router?
« Reply #10 on: March 07, 2016, 12:55:31 PM »

One thing that immediately strikes me is that the Zen graph doesn't quite seem to tie up with what we are seeing on MDWS.

Zen will be monitoring your PPP session from their RADIUS server.
MDWS monitors your sync which is connection to the exchange.

According to MDWS you resync'd at 10:05 this morning, and prior to that your last resync was 1st of March. 
I started to think perhaps theres was some sort of reporting issue or something missing here, so I checked your sync speeds for any changes.

28/02/2016 08:58 -  9716/1139
01/03/2016 10:08 -  9867/1103
07/03/2016 10:06 -  9859/1091

Unless you are rate limited (which you arent), then it is highly unlikely that you will ever sync at exactly the same speeds.  The fact that your sync speed remained exactly the same from 1st of March to 7th of March confirms the MDWS record of last sync was correct.

Soooooo now we know that sync isnt the issue, but PPP sessions that are dropping out. 

I'd hang fire with that radio for now -   Yes you do have a small EMI (REIN)  issue that causes the loss of SNRm, but this doesnt look like its what is taking your internet down.

What's your current set up?
Do you use a combined modem/router or have separate units controlling sync (modem) and PPP (router).
I also have the nagging thought at the back of my mind, that quite a few people on Zen randomly see PPP drops that have never quite been resolved.  They usually happen overnight though and certainly not at the frequency displayed on that graph. 
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kitz

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Re: WAN Disconnects Caused by Asus RT-AC68U Router?
« Reply #11 on: March 07, 2016, 01:09:24 PM »

Quote
On the basis that 99% of the time our line is fine he did a line test but didn't find any issues, the testing he did suggests that the problem is within our house and is SHINE.

I believe that you have some sort of EMI that causes REIN.  You also have RFI ingress which affects your max sync - but unless its HAM I dont think this is your main issue.    I think youve got 3 separate issues here...  and after seeing that Zen graph I dont think that its REIN which is causing your biggest problem of drop outs.

Quote
He offered to add interleaving to our service but advised against it when I revealed we have online gamers in the house-hold, he said it would adversely affect latency
Im of the same opinion.    DLM will add it if need be. 

Quote
He offered to increase our SNR target to 9db to improve stability, i decided to decline this for the moment

Definitely hang fire on that one.   It will decrease your sync speed and judging from your SNRm graphs you dont appear to have gone below 3dB.   You could try doing a router reboot at say 10 oclock at night when things are usually at their worst.   This will have the effect of reversing that curve.   ie most of the time you will be above 6dB. Again it will cost some sync speed but not as much as setting target SNRm to 9dB which is more final and not as easy to reverse.

Quote
He also sent me this cool connection graph (I added it at the end of my post)

That is brilliant -  I think seeing that combined with all the other info we have about your line - it's pointing to a problem with PPP connectivity and not sync.





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Chunkers

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Re: WAN Disconnects Caused by Asus RT-AC68U Router?
« Reply #12 on: March 07, 2016, 02:14:06 PM »

What's your current set up?
Do you use a combined modem/router or have separate units controlling sync (modem) and PPP (router).
I also have the nagging thought at the back of my mind, that quite a few people on Zen randomly see PPP drops that have never quite been resolved.  They usually happen overnight though and certainly not at the frequency displayed on that graph.

My setup is now an Asus RT-AC68U router (Merlin 380.57 firmware) bridged to a Zyxel VMG8324 (firmware 1.00(AAKL.12)C0), I have a number of different modems which I have tried over the last month.  If there IS a problem with my hardware then I guess it is more likely to be my router as this is the common factor in my recent issues, is there a way I can tell whether my router is dropping the connection?

I guess I could switch to using the VMG8324 as a full modem+router and just use the AC68U as WAP and see if it improves things.

Chunks
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Re: WAN Disconnects Caused by Asus RT-AC68U Router?
« Reply #13 on: March 07, 2016, 05:54:49 PM »

Two quick comments . . .
  • The Wooferton transmitting station will not be responsible for any RF ingress, as it transmits on the HF (short wave) band. (It has a very interesting history and there are a sequence of YouTube videos which give a "guided tour".) However if the external segment of your circuit is less than perfect, poor AC balance, "iffy" joint(s), etc, then there could be adverse effects caused by the relatively high signal strength from the Wooferton transmitters. Sub-harmonics, cross-modulation, etc. Also, Tenbury Wells is "right in the firing line" for Wooferton's eastern broadcasts.
  • Your hardware configuration is of a Zyxel VMG8324 in bridging mode connected to an Asus RT-AC68U router. (I realise that it might appear somewhat pedantic but your Asus RT-AC68U is not "bridged to" anything. It is the Zyxel that is acting as a full bridge.)
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Chunkers

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Re: WAN Disconnects Caused by Asus RT-AC68U Router?
« Reply #14 on: March 08, 2016, 11:33:24 AM »

Quick question, I happening to be up late last night binge re-watching Battlestar Galactica and I suffered another outage.  AS the house was pretty dead and everyone (else) was in bed I doubt there was any other initiating event.

I now have my logging sorted out and I notice that the outage appears to have originated in my router i.e. the AC68U log shows
this :

Quote from: AC68U
Mar  7 10:07:44 WAN Connection: WAN was restored. - note this is my ISP line test completing
…... EDIT
Mar  8 02:00:38 miniupnpd[15030]: Failed to get IP for interface ppp0
Mar  8 02:00:38 miniupnpd[15030]: SendNATPMPPublicAddressChangeNotification: cannot get public IP address, stopping
Mar  8 02:00:41 WAN Connection: Fail to connect with some issues.
Mar  8 02:00:41 stop_nat_rules: apply the redirect_rules!
Mar  8 02:00:41 pppd[510]: Connection terminated.
Mar  8 02:00:41 pppd[510]: Modem hangup
…...... EDIT
Mar  8 02:00:56 WAN Connection: WAN was restored.
…...... EDIT
Mar  8 02:59:51 miniupnpd[18065]: Failed to get IP for interface ppp0
Mar  8 02:59:51 miniupnpd[18065]: SendNATPMPPublicAddressChangeNotification: cannot get public IP address, stopping
Mar  8 02:59:54 WAN Connection: Fail to connect with some issues.
Mar  8 02:59:54 stop_nat_rules: apply the redirect_rules!
Mar  8 02:59:54 pppd[510]: Connection terminated.
Mar  8 02:59:55 pppd[510]: Modem hangup
Mar  8 03:00:05 pppd[510]: Connected to 00:30:88:00:00:02 via interface eth0
Mar  8 03:00:05 pppd[510]: Connect: ppp0 <--> eth0
Mar  8 03:00:05 pppd[510]: CHAP authentication succeeded
Mar  8 03:00:05 pppd[510]: peer from calling number 00:30:88:00:00:02 authorized
Mar  8 03:00:05 miniupnpd[18065]: Failed to get IP for interface ppp0
…......... 10 or so connection attempts
Mar  8 03:07:04 WAN Connection: WAN was restored.
Mar  8 03:07:04 rc_service: ip-up 18481:notify_rc stop_upnp
Mar  8 03:07:04 rc_service: ip-up 18481:notify_rc start_upnp
Mar  8 03:07:04 rc_service: waitting "stop_upnp" via ip-up ...
Mar  8 03:07:04 miniupnpd[18418]: shutting down MiniUPnPd
Mar  8 03:07:06 miniupnpd[18515]: HTTP listening on port 38549
Mar  8 03:07:06 miniupnpd[18515]: Listening for NAT-PMP/PCP traffic on port 5351
Mar  8 10:05:18 rc_service: zcip 19904:notify_rc start_firewall
Mar  8 10:05:18 zcip client: configured 169.254.86.173
Mar  8 10:05:19 start_nat_rules: apply the nat_rules(/tmp/nat_rules_ppp0_eth0)!
Mar  8 10:30:47 miniupnpd[18515]: HTTP Connection from 192.168.1.101 closed unexpectedly

But my modem (the VMG8324) only show the last reconnection which was during the line test by my ISP yesterday i.e. planned :

Quote from: VMG8324
1   2016 Mar 7 10:09:05   Internet   notice   Internet Up. connection type=atm0.1 IP=0.0.0.0 VCMUX PVC: 0/38
2   2016 Mar 7 10:09:05   XDSL   notice   ADSL link up. Speed:RX:9859/TX:1091 (Kbps)
3   2016 Mar 7 10:06:20   Internet   notice   Internet Down.
4   2016 Mar 7 10:06:20   XDSL   notice   xDSL ATM link down.


Here is the full log for info  So am I right in assuming that my Asus RT-AC68U is causing the disconnects?  I am  now suspicious of the Merlin firmware, maybe I should downgrade the firmware .....

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anything