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[ejs]

[William Grimsley]

We know an engineer personally, so he would not charge us for anything even if there was no fault found.

Why would we upgrade to an 80/20 service? Isn't that a bit stupid? We wouldn't get any faster than what we get now... 

All I am saying, is that there's a problem somewhere.

[d2d4j]

Hi

The only problem that exists is you, wanting to test the dlam against all advice not too

I thought you said previously it was not an issue been on 35 ds

You keep changing your mind as become repetitive, asking the same question

Many thanks

John

[ejs]

Why would we upgrade to an 80/20 service? Isn't that a bit stupid? We wouldn't get any faster than what we get now... 

I thought that before, you are getting the full 40Mb, with the max attainable slightly higher, so you might get 42Mb on a 80/20 service, if you could find an ISP that would let you have it considering your estimated speeds. And I thought switching products resets the DLM.

Well, I suppose it's OK for you if you know an engineer personally, they can just use their laptop or an app on their iPhone/iPad or whatever to do the DLM reset. Tough luck for anyone else who doesn't know an engineer personally. I'm not sure the engineer would be strictly supposed to do that if they weren't visiting in an official capacity organised by your ISP, and of course, if it were an official visit organised by your ISP, you couldn't guarantee which engineer you'd get.

[William Grimsley]

Why would we upgrade to an 80/20 service? Isn't that a bit stupid? We wouldn't get any faster than what we get now... 

I thought that before, you are getting the full 40Mb, with the max attainable slightly higher, so you might get 42Mb on a 80/20 service, if you could find an ISP that would let you have it considering your estimated speeds. And I thought switching products resets the DLM.

Well, I suppose it's OK for you if you know an engineer personally, they can just use their laptop or an app on their iPhone/iPad or whatever to do the DLM reset. Tough luck for anyone else who doesn't know an engineer personally. I'm not sure the engineer would be strictly supposed to do that if they weren't visiting in an official capacity organised by your ISP, and of course, if it were an official visit organised by your ISP, you couldn't guarantee which engineer you'd get.

That's a very good point. I don't really want to switch ISP. If the line does not recover to it's original state, then I will consider contacting him. Thanks.

[kitz]

if you know an engineer personally, they can just use their laptop or an app on their iPhone/iPad or whatever to do the DLM reset. Tough luck for anyone else who doesn't know an engineer personally. I'm not sure the engineer would be strictly supposed to do that if they weren't visiting in an official capacity organised by your ISP, and of course, if it were an official visit organised by your ISP, you couldn't guarantee which engineer you'd get.

ejs is correct. 

1) There isn't any way of allocating or requesting a particular engineer to a job.  If a new fault is reported then it just goes into a pool that automatically allocates.   On required visits for same fault you are most likely to be allocated a different engineer.  However I think there is something in place that an engineer who has previously visited for same fault can pick up again if they want.   I know with my HR fault,   I had about half a dozen different engineers, but the one who finally fixed it gave me a number to ring if there was any more problems over the next few days so he could pick up any requested revisit.

2) A reset can only be performed by a visiting engineer if he has found and corrected the fault.   Openreach has a very strict stance on the reset procedure - all DLM resets are logged against the engineer who performed it and routinely checked for abuse.   I'm sure that last year BS said last year or so that a new procedure had been put in place which specifically checked for abuse of DLM resets and that any found could result in disciplinary action for the OR engineer.   

3) ejs was actually trying to help when he made the 80/20 suggestion - because that is the only way that we know of whereby a DLM reset could automatically be re-triggered.
A change of product ie 40/10 to 80/20 will cause a reset.   Change of ISP doesn't.

[Dray]

A change of product ie 40/10 to 80/20 will cause a reset.   Change of ISP doesn't.

Funny you should say that, because when I migrated I not only had a reset, I was moved to a different port - and that was 80/20 -> 80/20.

[William Grimsley]

if you know an engineer personally, they can just use their laptop or an app on their iPhone/iPad or whatever to do the DLM reset. Tough luck for anyone else who doesn't know an engineer personally. I'm not sure the engineer would be strictly supposed to do that if they weren't visiting in an official capacity organised by your ISP, and of course, if it were an official visit organised by your ISP, you couldn't guarantee which engineer you'd get.

3) ejs was actually trying to help when he made the 80/20 suggestion - because that is the only way that we know of whereby a DLM reset could automatically be re-triggered.
A change of product ie 40/10 to 80/20 will cause a reset.   Change of ISP doesn't.

I am sorry! But, I'm not going to get out a new contract and pay double the money for a DLM reset!

[kitz]

All I am saying, is that there's a problem somewhere.

The problem isnt with your line and I cant see any faults.   Your errors are well within the acceptable range.

However the problem is Openreaches tough stance on DLM resets.   IMHO it is a major problem that ISPs cant simply request a DLM reset themselves. 
 
I have no idea why Openreach cant do something about this and why they cant put something in place so that NGA DLM resets can be requested in the same way that they can for 21CN.

I've been sat here for several minutes trying to think of any reason why they cant put something in place and the only thing I can think of is that it may be something to do with equivalence.    With 20/21CN -  DLM is owned by BTwholesale and the ISP makes any requests via BTwholesale because everything is wholesale side.   The LLU providers obviously dont have anything to do with BTw. 
   
DLM is one of those areas where things get a bit blurry between Openreach, BTw and another area of BT and who owns what.   Ofcom regulation ensures that if they cant do something for the LLU ISPs then they aren't allowed to do so for the others.   Im sure though that there must be some way of overcoming this for all.   

[kitz]

Funny you should say that, because when I migrated I not only had a reset, I was moved to a different port - and that was 80/20 -> 80/20.

Out of interest would that migration be between BTw based ISP and an LLU ISP?   Changing between BTw based ISPs certainly doesnt appear to trigger a reset.

[Black Sheep]

[loonylion]

I've been banded for over a year despite mydslwebstats being consistently green and my SNR being between 8 and 9. I'm afraid you may just have to live with it.

[gt94sss2]

However the problem is Openreaches tough stance on DLM resets.   IMHO it is a major problem that ISPs cant simply request a DLM reset themselves.

Do you know how long ISPs have had this capability on ADSL lines?

I thought it had been for quite a while but note that the September 2015 ISP Forum makes several references to customer control of DLM and a 'DLM Took Self Service Tool' which was being launched/rolled out last Autumn.

[Dray]

Out of interest would that migration be between BTw based ISP and an LLU ISP?   Changing between BTw based ISPs certainly doesnt appear to trigger a reset.

BT -> Sky

[kitz]

However the problem is Openreaches tough stance on DLM resets.   IMHO it is a major problem that ISPs cant simply request a DLM reset themselves.

Do you know how long ISPs have had this capability on ADSL lines?

I thought it had been for quite a while but note that the September 2015 ISP Forum makes several references to customer control of DLM and a 'DLM Took Self Service Tool' which was being launched/rolled out last Autumn.

Previously the ISP put in a request to BTw and then they had to wait for BTw to physically do it. 
With the new self service tool the ISP can also directly control and adjust other things such as say the Target SNRm.

I think the main difference is akin to how we can say phone up or raise a ticket with our ISP and ask them to do something, which they then do.   Or like it used to be with BE*  users had direct access to a CP to directly make these changes themselves such as set 3dB margin or turn off interleaving without ever having to speak to anyone first.

---

I'm not certain, but from what Weaver, says it sounds like AAISP has taken the new tool one step further and built on it so that their customers themselves also have direct access and change the settings themselves.  Ive never seen what options are available to the EU though other than Weavers mention of what is available to him via 'clueless'.  Im unsure if the options within clueless automatically generates the change with BTw - or if it sends a request to AAISP to make the change.

Somehow I cant ever see BTretail/consumer doing this.   Their average type customer would be changing settings without having a clue what they would be doing and possibly cause more harm