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[jon_]

Hi

Bit of backstory first...

I'm on a TalkTalk LLU connection, supplied via xilo, ADSL 2+ Annex M. Box in the exchange has an IFTN chipset. Current Draytek 2860 router reports line attenuation of approx 40dB. With a SNR target of 6dB I get 2M up and around 12-13M down. I thought all was well until investigating why streaming video kept stalling, then I realised the connection was retraining very frequently (usually between 30 mins and 2-3 hours). Playing about with firmwares on the Draytek I also realised that the standard firmware is broken enough that the line stats don't actually display any CRC errors or similar!! Dropping the SNR targets back to 12dB makes the sessions last a lot longer, but then the PPP connection will hang and require manual redialling - more draytek firmware bugs!! My previous router was a Draytek 2820 which actually seemed more stable, however that had PPP bugs that would hang the connection regularly!

I went on a hunt on ebay, bought a Speedtouch 585v6 (DOA), Zyxel P660 (crashes, refuses to establish link) and a TG582N, which actually works! On a 9dB target, it connects and stays connected for many days at a time, but instead of 2M up I only get 1.5M or so, and the speedtest.net results are much much slower (.99M upload vs. 1.6 on the dray). Download speeds are higher though... On a 6dB target it's not as stable, so it ideally needs to be somewhere between...

So - I'm after recommendations for a decent quality router with configurable SNR margins, that will stay stable on my connection and give me as much upload as possible! I've got a vodafone suresignal as well, which doesn't seem to like ADSL modems (due to encapsulated frame size issues), so it needs to be a router...

Any suggestions?

Stats from the router: (connection had been up approx 3 hours)

ATU-R Information
           Type:   ADSL2/2+
           Hardware:   Annex A
           Firmware:   05-07-01-08-00-01
           Power Mngt Mode:   DSL_G997_PMS_L0
           Line State:   SHOWTIME
           Running Mode:   ADSL2+ Annex M
           Vendor ID:   b5004946 544e0000
ATU-C Information
          Vendor ID:   b5004946 544e71c8 [IFTN]
Line Statistics
        
Downstream               Upstream               
Actual Rate   11481   Kbps   1982   Kbps
Attainable Rate   12520   Kbps   1980   Kbps
Path Mode   Interleave   Interleave
Interleave Depth   32   8
Actual PSD   19. 9   dB   12. 5   dB
Near End                    Far End                   
Trellis   ON   ON
Bitswap   ON   ON
ReTx   0       0   
SNR Margin   10   dB   8   dB
Attenuation   40   dB   17   dB
CRC   489   7
FECS   17149   s   51   s
ES   403   s   4   s
SES   0   s   0   s
LOSS   0   s   0   s
UAS   0   s   0   s
HEC Errors   0   60
RS Corrections   0   0
LOS Failure   0   0
LOF Failure   0   0
LPR Failure   0   0
NCD Failure   0   0
LCD Failure   0   0
NFEC   190   255
RFEC   4   4
LYSMB   508   2918

[Chunkers]

I don't know much about Annex M, nor have I ever tried it but my line has similar stats to yours (mines a bit worse I think) and I am also on ADSL 2+. Here is my line for comparison :



You get much better download speeds than me

I have tried (almost) all the chipset types and Broadcom chipsets have been by far the best in terms of stability for me, my Speedtouch v6 (shame yours was dead) and Billion 7800N having been the best.  The BCM6358 chipset supports Annex M according to the Broadcom website (I haven't checked the others) so you could choose one from here maybe?

I also have a TP-Link router TD-W8980 with a Lantiq / Infineon chipset similar to your Draytek.  After firmware updates the TP-Link will now maintain a stable connection on my line but although it reports higher speeds the real world DL speeds are no better than the Broadcom based ones I have.

Have you considered buying a cheapy modem and bridging it to your Draytek? 

Hope you get it sorted and I am sure one of the uber-geeks will be along shortly with better advice than mine

EDIT : I have also had a lot of trouble with my Vodafone Suresignal - ended up giving up with it, support was pretty bad also

Chunks

[jon_]

Interesting feedback - weird that my speeds are way higher than yours given similar line stats. Without Annex-M (So ADSL 2+ like you) I was pushing 15 or so M down...

I actually tried a Billion 8800 a while back, that would sync stably at 14M down but only 1.5M up - I put up a post about it a year ago (http://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php/topic,14772.msg276610.html#msg276610) when I was looking for a replacement for my previous draytek... It seems that the Broadcom based routers are less aggressive on the upstream. I travel a fair bit and sync/stream movies & TV from my home server to my tablet so if possible I'd like to keep the extra upstream (although I suppose it's really only 30K/second so not really here or there!)

I also tried a modem-only solution, however the suresignal would never connect, after some digging it seems that they aren't compatible with PPoA to PPoE solutions due to the frame size (or possibly only with Draytek's modems?) - as I work from home  and have no voda signal I need it to work!

[les-70]

  The old Netgear  DG834 v4 is a good option, ideally with dgteam firmware for configurable SNRM, and an unlocked HG612 is another.   It is a very old list but the following may be of interest.  I don't know how more modern devices do but I doubt that they would be much better. The Billion 8800NL allows the snrm tweak from the gui and may be worth a try.

http://www.thinkbroadband.com/news/4144-how-fast-is-your-broadband-router.html 

[Chunkers]

I travel a fair bit and sync/stream movies & TV from my home server to my tablet so if possible I'd like to keep the extra upstream (although I suppose it's really only 30K/second so not really here or there!)

Interesting - I also do this a lot as I work in Africa a lot of the time and download UK TV to watch using a local mobile phone.  The way I manage the upload bandwidth constraints is is I have my media / TV server save the video to a folder on a NAS at home which is synced with my Google drive and I have an upload bandwidth limit set on the folder to approximately half of my bandwidth 500 kbps and I just let it grind away all the time, its pretty horrible but it works.

On the SureSignal, I bought it as there is virtually no signal anywhere in my house but in the end I just gave up.  It worked sporadically but the fact that it was not relaible just made life more complicated as people never knew which number to call - I just had a dedicated landline installed instead.

Cheers big ears!

Chunks

[jon_]

I use a combination of Plex and MythTV - so all the recorded stuff is read into Plex, and it takes care of syncing locally or remotely - it'll compress stuff on the fly for streaming or syncing. Normally I use 2MBps/720p for synced content, which isn't too bad syncing via a hotel wifi connection - as long as the connection stays up! If it drops it has a habit of stopping the sync process. For streaming I can just about get away with 1.5MBps/480p without it buffering, which I don't think I would be able to with a slower upload speed...

We've actually got 2 suresignals and an EE equivalent - the SS isn't that bad now, I think they have ironed out most of the bugs... The EE box seems to be less reliable though! I'm hoping that they roll out wifi calling soon as it will remove the need for all the extra boxes!

[Dray]

Both Vodafone and EE have already rolled out Wifi calling.

[jon_]

Both Vodafone and EE have already rolled out Wifi calling.

EE only support it on EE direct supplied devices (which my other halves isn't), and voda say they have no plans to roll it out for enterprise accounts due to 'security concerns'!!!

[Dray]

Members of my family are using it on EE and I use it on Vodafone.

[jon_]

Unfortunately it's not available to either of us

[Dray]

According to Vodafone

* Wi-Fi Calling is only available to business customers on relevant plans and phones, bought directly from Vodafone. This doesn’t include business customers on either One Net or Red Sharer.

and I don't know what you mean about EE. It sounds like you'll have to change suppliers to get it, rather than waiting for some unspecified "roll out".

[jon_]

From work's voda account manager:

WIFI calling is currently not an option with Vodafone Enterprise. This is because Vodafone managed 70% of government accounts that turn to Vodafone for security.
WIFI calling has not yet been tested enough by Vodafone Enterprise to enter our portfolio of services. We know Vodafone consumer are launching this, but it involves individual users and not an entire business that could be put at risk.

Fills you with confidence doesn't it!

Regarding EE - the phone contract was via a third party comms supplier, so doesn't have EE branded firmware on it so doesn't support wifi calling...

Both phones are work supplied, so unfortunately we are at the whim of our respective employers and can't change things!

[Dray]

Shame. Ah well, these people who like to stand in the way of progress probably have good reasons.

[jon_]

As a follow up to this, I bought another Billion 8800...

I've been playing around with the noise margins - with a 4dB margin it will connect at 15.2M down, 1.575M up and seems to be very stable - it's been connected since I last changed it so a smidge under 5 days...

So on my line :

Draytek 2860 : Only stable at a ~10dB SNR Target. 11M down 2M up.
TG582N : would be stable about 7-8dB SNR Target.  ~13m down, 1.5M up.
8800NL : Stable at a 4dB Target. ~15M down, 1.6M up.

Guess I'll have to put up with a little less upstream for a much faster, much more stable connection!