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[tickmike]

So it's just guesswork really. I prefer actual data. I wonder if the HG612 will do the job.

I use a
Product type   EchoLife HG612 
Device ID   8853D4-21530315408K28066982
Hardware version   VER.B
Software version   V100R001C01B030SP08

On my Exchange I have never seen it active.

Stats recorded 15 Feb 2016 15:38:12

DSLAM/MSAN type:           IFTN:0x71c8 / v0x71c8
Modem/router firmware:     AnnexA version - A2pv6C038m.d24j
DSL mode:                  ADSL2
Status:                    Showtime
Uptime:                    19 min 39 sec
Resyncs:                   0 (since 15 Feb 2016 15:38:12)
         
            Downstream   Upstream
Line attenuation (dB):     48.5      29.1
Signal attenuation (dB):   49.8      29.2
Connection speed (kbps):   3751      896
SNR margin (dB):           7.1      6.2
Power (dBm):               0.0      12.7
Interleave depth:          16      4
INP:                       0.50      0
G.INP:                     Not enabled      

RSCorr/RS (%):             43.7634      0.0151
RSUnCorr/RS (%):           5.4766      0.0000
ES/hour:                   287      15.3

[Weaver]

Seems like another minor opportunity lost. ADSL2/2+ is a pretty sophisticated beast surely, and it seems to me that it's worth the likes of BT going right through the spec to see how to get the absolute maximum out of it. I'm assuming that a lot of these features cost next to nothing, although ruling inferior products out may mean you miss out on cost savings from cheapo candidate kit. Perhaps when faced with a truly massive potential order from the likes of BT, manufacturers whose products are lacking certain features will suddenly pull their fingers out and start writing code quick.

[Dray]

So it's just guesswork really. I prefer actual data. I wonder if the HG612 will do the job.

I use a
Product type   EchoLife HG612 
G.INP:                     Not enabled      

Are you on Sky though?

[tickmike]

I can see my isp has just done a line test 15.20hrs, I wait until they get back to me then I will ask if they can turn on G.INP on my ADSL2 line .

[guest]

Seems like another minor opportunity lost. ADSL2/2+ is a pretty sophisticated beast surely, and it seems to me that it's worth the likes of BT going right through the spec to see how to get the absolute maximum out of it. I'm assuming that a lot of these features cost next to nothing, although ruling inferior products out may mean you miss out on cost savings from cheapo candidate kit. Perhaps when faced with a truly massive potential order from the likes of BT, manufacturers whose products are lacking certain features will suddenly pull their fingers out and start writing code quick.

Its my understanding that Sky were only interested in g.INP because their average speeds were looking pretty bad compared to BT when they were doing the VDSL2 commercial rollout ie - pre-BDUK.

BT was hammering the Infinity adverts and, much like when ADSL first came out, many people assumed it was only available directly from BT. This in turn bumped up the BT average speeds so Sky went with g.INP and 3dB margins on their LLU kit.

I was told that Sky got an average increase in speeds of 8% on lines with g.INP applied - seems about right from what I saw.

I honestly can't see BT upgrading ADSL2+ exchange kit which doesn't support g.INP, it wouldn't make any sense - they're unlikely to be having capacity issues as people switch to VDSL2 services. Firmware upgrades are only likely if they either fix a serious bug or save a lot of power IMHO.

[guest]

So it's just guesswork really. I prefer actual data. I wonder if the HG612 will do the job.

I use a
Product type   EchoLife HG612 
G.INP:                     Not enabled      

Are you on Sky though?

Are you? If you are & its not Sky Connect ADSL (ie its LLU ADSL) then g.INP will be active on your line. The only Sky lines which don't have it turned on are those with regular noise events where the duration of noise means that interleaving is more efficient than g.INP.

[tickmike]

So it's just guesswork really. I prefer actual data. I wonder if the HG612 will do the job.

I use a
Product type   EchoLife HG612 
G.INP:                     Not enabled      

Are you on Sky though?

http://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php/topic,16990.msg312858.html#msg312858

[Dray]

I wonder if the Infineon DSLAM offers G.INP

[guest]

One of the great features UKOnline had but Sky didn't (same exchange kit for a while) was Seamless Rate Adaptation.

Worked like a charm*. I imagine SRA + g.INP would make for a fast stable line but meh nobody does it.

*I would see the sync rate lower a couple of hundred kbps as dusk/darkness arrived & with it increased MF interference. Dawn arrives and back up it goes.

[Weaver]

I honestly can't see BT upgrading ADSL2+ exchange kit which doesn't support g.INP, it wouldn't make any sense - they're unlikely to be having capacity issues as people switch to VDSL2 services. Firmware upgrades are only likely if they either fix a serious bug or save a lot of power IMHO.

Could you clarify a bit Rizla? Why not enable such a valuable feature if it's only a firmware change in an MSAN? (Which I imagine is very cheap.) Apologies if I have misunderstood.

[guest]

I honestly can't see BT upgrading ADSL2+ exchange kit which doesn't support g.INP, it wouldn't make any sense - they're unlikely to be having capacity issues as people switch to VDSL2 services. Firmware upgrades are only likely if they either fix a serious bug or save a lot of power IMHO.

Could you clarify a bit Rizla? Why not enable such a valuable feature if it's only a firmware change in an MSAN? (Which I imagine is very cheap.) Apologies if I have misunderstood.

New firmware for older kit is unlikely to be cheap (worst case BT have to pay for the work to do it) but the main issue is that the firmware will have to be extensively tested before rollout. That'll be the main cost driver - you'd have to be clinically insane to jump several firmware revisions without extensive testing. That's assuming that the hardware doesn't need upgrading too.

Where's the benefit to BT from that?

If their experience is similar to Sky's* then they'll get an uplift in average ADSL speeds of 8% or so. BT have so many VDSL2 customers that it wouldn't even show as a blip on a graph these days. They'd get better results from upgrading the really ancient ADSL1 exchanges.

*they won't get as good a result as Sky because more Sky customers use Sky routers due to the way Sky auths users (they use MER for VDSL2, used to for ADSL too). As they use Sky routers then Sky can make sure they get maximum "bang for the buck" on stuff like this.

[ejs]

I thought Weaver is on some shiny new Broadcom based MSAN, which is what the most recent WBC upgraded exchanges appear to get. Presumably these few exchanges wouldn't need any further upgrading to support G.INP, but it would probably still require changing the DLM to take account of the different capabilities of different exchange kit.

[burakkucat]

DSLAM/MSAN type:           IFTN:0x71c8 / v0x71c8

That Infineon fingerprint implies a Huawei DSLAM/MSAN, if I am remembering correctly. 

[gt94sss2]

I thought Weaver is on some shiny new Broadcom based MSAN, which is what the most recent WBC upgraded exchanges appear to get. Presumably these few exchanges wouldn't need any further upgrading to support G.INP, but it would probably still require changing the DLM to take account of the different capabilities of different exchange kit.

It wouldn't surprise me if that shiny new MSAN used older firmware - to ensure it was the same as any other similar MSAN on BT's network.

Having said that I'm sure it would support INP but can you imagine the howls of outrage if BT turned on INP (after a lengthy trial for each eligible DSLAM/MSAN vendor) for some ADSL customers then not to get it as their DSLAM/MSAN doesn't support it..

It would make the ECI G.INP availability issue pale into insignificance.. "Dear MP, BT are refusing to give me an extra 10% ADSL speed on my non super-fast line when other BT customers can get it. I have a slow line - fibre is unavailable (or I am too cheap to get it) - and am already discriminated against as I pay more in my Market A exchange than others in the country. Please breakup BT now, this wouldn't happen if OR was separate"

The truth is that ADSL is now effectively a dead technology with a reducing user base - its in no ones interest - including the customer - to invest more money in it as a platform and much better that CapEx gets spent on rolling out fibre or other upgrades etc.

The reason that exchanges are getting new MSANs is to do with putting them on 21CN - and there are still 100s of exchanges to upgrade..

Worth nothing that on ADSL - BT also decided not to rollout both SRA and INP..

[guest]

I thought Weaver is on some shiny new Broadcom based MSAN, which is what the most recent WBC upgraded exchanges appear to get. Presumably these few exchanges wouldn't need any further upgrading to support G.INP, but it would probably still require changing the DLM to take account of the different capabilities of different exchange kit.

It wouldn't surprise me if that shiny new MSAN used older firmware - to ensure it was the same as any other similar MSAN on BT's network.
<snip>
The truth is that ADSL is now effectively a dead technology with a reducing user base - its in no ones interest - including the customer - to invest more money in it as a platform and much better that CapEx gets spent on rolling out fibre or other upgrades etc.

They'll all be on the same revision bar any tagged for beta-testing. In theory anyway, there's probably a few on even older firmware for one reason & another.

I agree with your assessment of ADSL being essentially dead in the water.