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Author Topic: Line Stats, G.INP and interleaving  (Read 6109 times)

Andy_D

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Line Stats, G.INP and interleaving
« on: December 08, 2015, 08:42:54 PM »

Evening,

Read these forums whenever I'm in trouble and always consult or read when ever I'm buying something / upgrading or reconfiguring, so thanks for all the contributors and wealth of info here.

I recently got around to unlocking a HG612 and using DSL Stats to look at a few dimensions and statistics (couldn't get the download links to work for HG612 modem stats to work as the files seemed to be removed).

Anyway, the main thing of interest me was all the talk about G.INP as I'm on a Huawei cabinet Guildford - 8 and have been using a HH5 type 5A.  Now the sync has been very nearly maxed at 79 / 20 but the attainable has decresed with time particularly in the last 6 months.

Plus occasionally it seems to be "slow" to respond and reports high pings and very very occasionally the HH5 will require a re-boot when pings and downloads go fubar. [Edit: actually, more correctly, to restore performance I can cease the connection and reconnect without rebooting.]

Also, fwiw I'm with Plusnet.

Below are the stats as captured in dsl stats.  interested if there is anything in particular I should focus on. I was surprised to have interleaving applied at a depth of 16 creating 3ms delay.

Also, is G.Inp def active on this line? The testing I've done doesn't really show much more delay or decreased bandwidth with the HH5 vs the HG612 so I was thinking it wasn't but one of stats - INP:48 and G.INP Enabled - indicates it is. There is only 0s on the bearer 1 connection though??


Sorry couldn't embed these stats as well as other posters seemed to be able to.

Many thanks for the advice.

xdslcmd info --stats
xdslcmd: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: Showtime
Retrain Reason:   0
Last initialization procedure status:   0
Max:   Upstream rate = 32233 Kbps, Downstream rate = 87448 Kbps
Bearer:   0, Upstream rate = 19999 Kbps, Downstream rate = 79999 Kbps
Bearer:   1, Upstream rate = 0 Kbps, Downstream rate = 0 Kbps
Link Power State:   L0
Mode:         VDSL2 Annex B
VDSL2 Profile:      Profile 17a
TPS-TC:         PTM Mode(0x0)
Trellis:      U:ON /D:ON
Line Status:      No Defect
Training Status:   Showtime
      Down      Up
SNR (dB):    7.9       15.8
Attn(dB):    15.1       0.0
Pwr(dBm):    13.5       6.5
         VDSL2 framing
         Bearer 0
MSGc:      -6      26
B:      130      237
M:      1      1
T:      0      42
R:      8      16
S:      0.0518      0.3781
L:      21468      5374
D:      16      1
I:      139      127
N:      139      254
Q:      16      0
V:      14      0
RxQueue:      60      0
TxQueue:      20      0
G.INP Framing:      18      0
G.INP lookback:      20      0
RRC bits:      0      24
         Bearer 1
MSGc:      186      -6
B:      0      0
M:      2      0
T:      2      0
R:      16      0
S:      5.3333      0.0000
L:      48      0
D:      3      0
I:      32      0
N:      32      0
Q:      0      0
V:      0      0
RxQueue:      0      0
TxQueue:      0      0
G.INP Framing:      0      0
G.INP lookback:      0      0
RRC bits:      0      0
         Counters
         Bearer 0
OHF:      0      1840829
OHFErr:      0      1
RS:      1852525584      1347009
RSCorr:      1193      2
RSUnCorr:   0      0
         Bearer 1
OHF:      1499392      0
OHFErr:      0      0
RS:      17991969      0
RSCorr:      0      0
RSUnCorr:   0      0

         Retransmit Counters
rtx_tx:      17870531      0
rtx_c:      57      0
rtx_uc:      0      0

         G.INP Counters
LEFTRS:      0      0
minEFTR:   79982      0
errFreeBits:   29387797      0

         Bearer 0
HEC:      0      0
OCD:      0      0
LCD:      0      0
Total Cells:   3705151101      0
Data Cells:   4014185      0
Drop Cells:   0
Bit Errors:   0      0

         Bearer 1
HEC:      0      0
OCD:      0      0
LCD:      0      0
Total Cells:   0      0
Data Cells:   0      0
Drop Cells:   0
Bit Errors:   0      0

ES:      0      1
SES:      0      0
UAS:      27      27
AS:      24085

         Bearer 0
INP:      48.00      0.00
INPRein:   0.00      0.00
delay:      0      0
PER:      0.00      3.98
OR:      0.01      64.22
AgR:      80614.82   20063.54

         Bearer 1
INP:      4.00      0.00
INPRein:   4.00      0.00
delay:      3      0
PER:      16.06      0.01
OR:      95.62      0.01
AgR:      95.62   0.01

Bitswap:   17069/17069      1/1

Total time = 6 hours 41 min 52 sec
FEC:      1193      2
CRC:      0      1
ES:      0      1
SES:      0      0
UAS:      27      27
LOS:      0      0
LOF:      0      0
LOM:      0      0
Latest 15 minutes time = 11 min 52 sec
FEC:      20      0
CRC:      0      0
ES:      0      0
SES:      0      0
UAS:      0      0
LOS:      0      0
LOF:      0      0
LOM:      0      0
Previous 15 minutes time = 15 min 0 sec
FEC:      33      0
CRC:      0      0
ES:      0      0
SES:      0      0
UAS:      0      0
LOS:      0      0
LOF:      0      0
LOM:      0      0
Latest 1 day time = 6 hours 41 min 52 sec
FEC:      1193      2
CRC:      0      1
ES:      0      1
SES:      0      0
UAS:      27      27
LOS:      0      0
LOF:      0      0
LOM:      0      0
Previous 1 day time = 0 sec
FEC:      0      0
CRC:      0      0
ES:      0      0
SES:      0      0
UAS:      0      0
LOS:      0      0
LOF:      0      0
LOM:      0      0
Since Link time = 6 hours 41 min 23 sec
FEC:      1193      2
CRC:      0      1
ES:      0      1
SES:      0      0
UAS:      0      0
LOS:      0      0
LOF:      0      0
LOM:      0      0


G.INP
Data Summary

            Downstream      Upstream
General
   rtx_tx             17870531           0               
   rtx_c              57                 0               
   rtx_uc             0                  0               
   LEFTRS             0                  0               
   minEFTR            80015              0               
   errFreeBits        29644049           0               
Bearer 0
   RxQueue            60                 0               
   TxQueue            20                 0               
   G.INP Framing      18                 0               
   G.INP Lookback     20                 0               
   RRC Bits           0                  24             
   Interleave depth   16                 1               
   INP                48.00              0.00           
   INPRein            0.00               0.00           
   Delay              0                  0               
Bearer 1
   Interleave depth   3                  0               
   INP                4.00               0.00           
   INPRein            4.00               0.00           
   Delay              3                  0               


Stats

Stats recorded 08 Dec 2015 20:37:34

DSLAM/MSAN type:           BDCM:0xa48c / v0xa48c
Modem/router firmware:     AnnexA version - A2pv6C038m.d24j
DSL mode:                  VDSL2 Profile 17a
Status:                    Showtime
Uptime:                    6 hours 45 min 53 sec
Resyncs:                   0 (since 08 Dec 2015 14:15:01)
         
            Downstream   Upstream
Line attenuation (dB):     15.1      0.0
Signal attenuation (dB):   Not monitored      
Connection speed (kbps):   79999      19999
SNR margin (dB):           7.9      15.8
Power (dBm):               13.5      6.5
Interleave depth:          16      1
INP:                       48.00      0
G.INP:                     Enabled      

RSCorr/RS (%):             0.0001      0.0000
RSUnCorr/RS (%):           0.0000      0.0000
ES/hour:                   0      0
« Last Edit: December 08, 2015, 08:51:44 PM by Andy_D »
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Dray

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Re: Line Stats, G.INP and interleaving
« Reply #1 on: December 08, 2015, 08:56:28 PM »

G.INP is definitely active on your line :)
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Al1264

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Re: Line Stats, G.INP and interleaving
« Reply #2 on: December 09, 2015, 01:10:37 PM »

I was surprised to have interleaving applied at a depth of 16 creating 3ms delay.
The 3ms delay is only on Bearer 1 (downstream), that's the G.INP bearer, your actual data connection (Bearer 0) has 0 delay.
It appears that G.INP is only active on your downstream, your upstream stats show no retransmission or (interleaving) error correction (your upstream doesn't appear to need G.INP).
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burakkucat

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Re: Line Stats, G.INP and interleaving
« Reply #3 on: December 09, 2015, 03:54:24 PM »

<snip>

. . . I'm on a Huawei cabinet Guildford - 8 and have been using a HH5 type 5A.  Now the sync has been very nearly maxed at 79 / 20 but the attainable has decresed with time particularly in the last 6 months.

<snip>

THGI_P8 definitely has a Huawei SmartAX MA5616 equipped cabinet as its "fibre twin".

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Andy_D

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Re: Line Stats, G.INP and interleaving
« Reply #4 on: December 12, 2015, 09:08:02 PM »

Quote
The 3ms delay is only on Bearer 1 (downstream), that's the G.INP bearer, your actual data connection (Bearer 0) has 0 delay.
It appears that G.INP is only active on your downstream, your upstream stats show no retransmission or (interleaving) error correction (your upstream doesn't appear to need G.INP).

Right, I'm not sure I follow the siginficance of bearer 0 /1. Does that meant there is only interleave on retransmission as a part of G.INP so there is not really an effective delay on my line at all times?

Like I said, perhaps curiously I have been using a HH5A and the stats using that are not really noticeably different to the HG612 which supports G.INP a lot better and the loss of thoughput and increased delay doesn't really seem apparent in my situation.

Quote
THGI_P8 definitely has a Huawei SmartAX MA5616 equipped cabinet as its "fibre twin".

Yes that's the one. Just down the end of our road and a right hand turn and you're there!

[Moderator edited to fix the quote tags.]
« Last Edit: December 12, 2015, 09:17:04 PM by burakkucat »
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burakkucat

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Re: Line Stats, G.INP and interleaving
« Reply #5 on: December 12, 2015, 09:20:50 PM »

Quote
THGI_P8 definitely has a Huawei SmartAX MA5616 equipped cabinet as its "fibre twin".

Yes that's the one. Just down the end of our road and a right hand turn and you're there!

Probably without realising it, you would have seen Walter's Wheelbarrow trundling around . . . as that cabinet pair are but a short distance from the Wheelbarrow's "stable".
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WWWombat

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Re: Line Stats, G.INP and interleaving
« Reply #6 on: December 15, 2015, 07:36:23 PM »

Right, I'm not sure I follow the siginficance of bearer 0 /1. Does that meant there is only interleave on retransmission as a part of G.INP so there is not really an effective delay on my line at all times?

Look at the "AgR" figures for the two bearers - that is the "Aggregate Rate" of each, in kbps. That's 80,614 kbps on bearer 0 and 95kbps on bearer 1.

The VDSL2 specifications allow data to be transferred across a number of "bearer channels" between the two modems. However, the G.INP specs narrows things down to a few options.

In BT's implementation, they choose to put the user data into bearer 0, alongside some of the control and framing data - so it aggregates to a rate of 80.6Mbps. Bearer 0 then has retransmission configured (INP=48, in your case), but with delay=0. However, the modems configure a very small amount of FEC and interleaving in this bearer, and my calculations suggest you see latency of about 0.2ms in your user data (ie the stuff your router passes).

There are only a few of the modem control bits allocated to bearer 1, so it only takes 95kbps. However, the modems obviously think it better to be correct than fast with these control bits, as it uses the old-style FEC and interleaving settings for these (100% FEC overhead and 4ms latency). But none of this data is part of the data seen by your router, even when re-transmission happens.

So, delay would be about 0.2ms as standard, When G.INP is retransmitting a lot, any packets that require retransmission may take up to 5ms. See this thread for an example.
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Bald_Eagle1

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Re: Line Stats, G.INP and interleaving
« Reply #7 on: December 16, 2015, 07:32:41 AM »

Evening,

Read these forums whenever I'm in trouble and always consult or read when ever I'm buying something / upgrading or reconfiguring, so thanks for all the contributors and wealth of info here.

I recently got around to unlocking a HG612 and using DSL Stats to look at a few dimensions and statistics (couldn't get the download links to work for HG612 modem stats to work as the files seemed to be removed).


FWIW, I will be releasing an update of the HG612 Modem Stats package quite soon.

This release should deal with the one or two big name, but 'over ambitious' anti-virus programs that incorrectly report 'suspicious' behaviour.


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Andy_D

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Re: Line Stats, G.INP and interleaving
« Reply #8 on: December 31, 2015, 10:21:10 AM »

Probably without realising it, you would have seen Walter's Wheelbarrow trundling around . . . as that cabinet pair are but a short distance from the Wheelbarrow's "stable".

Not sure what I'm leading myself into here. But there are quite a few wheelbarrows around here on their way to the allotments on the downs. How would one recognise "Walter's Wheelbarrow"?

[Moderator edited to fix the broken quotation.]
« Last Edit: December 31, 2015, 05:44:18 PM by burakkucat »
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Andy_D

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Re: Line Stats, G.INP and interleaving
« Reply #9 on: December 31, 2015, 10:23:02 AM »

Right, I'm not sure I follow the siginficance of bearer 0 /1. Does that meant there is only interleave on retransmission as a part of G.INP so there is not really an effective delay on my line at all times?


So, delay would be about 0.2ms as standard, When G.INP is retransmitting a lot, any packets that require retransmission may take up to 5ms. See this thread for an example.

Thanks for the explanation, some still over my head but will read again when I've read up more on what G.Inp does. Appreciate the guidance.
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Andy_D

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Re: Line Stats, G.INP and interleaving
« Reply #10 on: December 31, 2015, 10:24:42 AM »

Evening,

Read these forums whenever I'm in trouble and always consult or read when ever I'm buying something / upgrading or reconfiguring, so thanks for all the contributors and wealth of info here.

I recently got around to unlocking a HG612 and using DSL Stats to look at a few dimensions and statistics (couldn't get the download links to work for HG612 modem stats to work as the files seemed to be removed).


FWIW, I will be releasing an update of the HG612 Modem Stats package quite soon.

This release should deal with the one or two big name, but 'over ambitious' anti-virus programs that incorrectly report 'suspicious' behaviour.

Appreciate the heads up. Will look forward to trying it out.  Will the files be linked into these forums or elsewhere?
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burakkucat

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Re: Line Stats, G.INP and interleaving
« Reply #11 on: December 31, 2015, 05:49:21 PM »

Probably without realising it, you would have seen Walter's Wheelbarrow trundling around . . . as that cabinet pair are but a short distance from the Wheelbarrow's "stable".

Not sure what I'm leading myself into here. But there are quite a few wheelbarrows around here on their way to the allotments on the downs. How would one recognise "Walter's Wheelbarrow"?

Walter's Wheelbarrow is quite distinctive. It is the one that is loaded with items of xDSL related equipment, including ex-BT test equipment, cables and various gubbins.  :D
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Andy_D

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Re: Line Stats, G.INP and interleaving
« Reply #12 on: January 22, 2016, 08:51:30 AM »

Hmmm. I still may regret being wound in on this! Is Walter's Wheelbarrow an actual wheelbarrow or a metaphor for a large 4wd type vehicle? And if so, is it blue?
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burakkucat

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Re: Line Stats, G.INP and interleaving
« Reply #13 on: January 22, 2016, 04:26:28 PM »

Is Walter's Wheelbarrow an actual wheelbarrow . . .

No.

Quote
. . . or a metaphor for a large 4wd type vehicle?

No, once again.

Quote
And if so, is it blue?

I cannot possibly comment upon its colour!  ;)
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