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[tommy45]

If you look at my MDWS Tom34 and check the US SNR over the past 5-6 days you will see a sudden dip and it then stay at that level for a few hours before returning back to what it was before ,it has done this twice now, the first time i thought it was the HG612 falling over  as it had been in sync for some 70 days , So i due to what appeared to be an increase in error rate i decided to reboot it , (after 45mins or so) the changes i noticed  were a lower upstream power setting, and lower attainable rates, but in the early hours of this morning the SNR dip occurred again,

Any ideas what would cause this apart from a developing  line fault?  also other things that i have observed when there are changes like this the bit swapping seems to cease or be really low , though what the relationship is between changes in SNR levels and amount of bit swapping i don't know, also   after a the modem obtains  sync is it normal for there to be no or very little bit swapping ?

[burakkucat]

Last point first. If a modem has just been powered up or otherwise totally reset, I would not expect to see too much bit-swapping taking place -- unless there is a significant problem with the xDSL signal quality.

I am currently looking at your last 24 hours of statistics. I agree the US SNRM plot is abnormal and it can be seen that there are a constant stream of low-level US CRCs.

At present there does not appear to be a "smoking gun", so it might be best to keep things under observation. 

Have you tried --

• Watching for US SNRM changes when the line is looped (as if to make a telephone call) and then cleared down?
• Watching for US SNRM changes and increased CRCs when an incoming call is made to that circuit?
• Performing a quiet line test and listening critically for any background noise(s) on that circuit?

[tommy45]

When i receive a call this generates errors on the upstream which when allowed to ring for several minutes is quite evident in MWDS it also generates a lot of FEC errors both US and DS  simultaneously , there doesn't appear to be any obvious changes in SNR levels  when the phone is ringing , But sometimes there have been changes when making a call to one of the US SNR channels it has shown an increase (UO) blue SNR  the other 2 have remained the same, as for US CRC's i can't see any signs of an increase in rate that correlate to phone use

I have done a few QLT's from time to time, last time being earlier today  just before dawn, and apart from 1 pop in 2+mins  there was nothing odd,  just repeated the QLT now and have heard several popping noises, that seem random probably around 20-25 times within the 4mins or so duration of the QLT,

[burakkucat]

I now understand the situation. Thank you.

It is quite likely that there is a (latent) fault developing but it is still at a very low level. I would be inclined to suspect that one (or more) joint(s) is (are) beginning to show semi-conductive tendencies. With time it (they) may develop into a "full-blown" HR joint(s).

However there is nothing, as yet, definite to see . . . My only suggestion is to be aware and keep watch. 

[tommy45]

 Thank's BC , It's pretty much as i suspected yet another fault brewing,It's a good job that i tend not to get many incoming calls (apart from scam masters/unwanted sales ect) otherwise it may have pushed up the error rate enough for DLM to go into overdrive and nerf my connection in some way, or on the more positive side activate G.inp on the US  without increasing latency or reducing syncs

 This is one reason why i can't understand why BT haven't pushed a lot sooner into replacing copper with fibre  surely it would be cost effective in the longer term?  though it may allow the bean counter to cut the number of engineers , knowing BT that's what they would do if we had 90% + real fibre to the home

[tommy45]

I decided to  do a reboot of the modem leaving enough time in between so DLM would ignore it,

Got a slightly lower sync rate  both us and ds,and a slightly lower snr level on the ds, but less errors ,more recently i have noticed  a lot of fec's being generated, between certain hours, there are several small shops on the street that i live on, and there is only one that opens for business around the time the bursts of fecs start, a kebab shop,which is a few doors away towards the pcp

I have noticed that they have recently installed some extra lighting outside the shop underneath the existing sign, 2 fluorescent  strip lights inside a exterior diffuser, not sure how many tubes in each ,but they light up the footpath (quite why they would see this as useful i cannot figure,) as the street lighting is bright enough and is the newer type (not orange sodium)
But these "pointless" lights are causing the high amount of fec's no 2 ways about it, this is showing on my tbbqm as jitter during the times that they are switched on, it doesn't appear to be having a noticeable impact on throughput

My guess is that the ballasts in those fitting are the cause giving of interference, or the dumb asses have routed the mains power cable for these crappy lights that look stupid next to the telephone line either where it enters the property or next to an internal extension
Not sure what course of action  i should take, purchase air weapon, or attack them with a hammer and put the lights out one night? lol, if feel like doing that , or good old open reach  i doubt are interested in protecting their line plant from injected noise from some clowns property, shame  because they should be able to protect it, and be able to disconnect  their line plant from said property if owner won't co operate

[tommy45]

Today i can see a significant drop in SNR mainly on the DS taking the attainable below the sync rate, and there's still a lot of  error seconds being generated every time the phone rings as well as a burst of FEC errors both US & DS simultaneously
Though the line when i have tested seems free of pops crackles , I want to report it as a line fault before it gets worse but is the exfo ect likely to detect the issue or not?

If you look at my MDWS  at the same time that the SNR changes you can see that the Bit swapping almost ceases fort a time, this is also has happened when the SNR level has changed in the recent past the 2 seem to be linked in some way

[William Grimsley]

Looks like I maybe getting the same issue then, hence why DLM isn't removing the banding/intervention of my line. My line is getting hundreds of upstream FEC's in a minute when we get a call...

[William Grimsley]

Today i can see a significant drop in SNR mainly on the DS taking the attainable below the sync rate, and there's still a lot of  error seconds being generated every time the phone rings as well as a burst of FEC errors both US & DS simultaneously
Though the line when i have tested seems free of pops crackles , I want to report it as a line fault before it gets worse but is the exfo ect likely to detect the issue or not?

If you look at my MDWS  at the same time that the SNR changes you can see that the Bit swapping almost ceases fort a time, this is also has happened when the SNR level has changed in the recent past the 2 seem to be linked in some way

I certainly wouldn't say you have a line fault, not quite yet. The problem is, is that if you report it as a line fault and the Openreach engineer finds no fault you could be charged up to £129.99.

[tommy45]

All too well aware of this OR charge, thanks,been there ,done that, before,though i did manage to have the charge withdrawn after contacting BT's CEO

 Had a closer inspection of the line outside my home, as there was some work done by some clown who the landlord hired (removal of a porch roof and door due to the timber frames being rotten and a danger of the glass roof killing someone,
My line to the grey BT box is at least 15yrs old it looked old when i moved in , on checking it i have found some superficial damage to the black outer sleeving  from the Glass that was on the old roof, and i little further towards the grey box the wire had a 90 degree kink in it at one of the few remaining clips that hold the wire onto the wall  at this point the outer sleeving has cracked open and the pairs can be seen so imo this could be a partial break in the pair too, Consistent with some weight being applied to it,(Wire used by cowboy builder to support roof/glass pane?) i do recall their being a lot of errors and some SNR fluctuations whilst the work was being carried out

This wire is attached to a wall at the side of the property  and there is a communal access for vehicles to several properties , so accessible to the public as not gated

[William Grimsley]

All too well aware of this OR charge, thanks,been there ,done that, before,though i did manage to have the charge withdrawn after contacting BT's CEO

 Had a closer inspection of the line outside my home, as there was some work done by some clown who the landlord hired (removal of a porch roof and door due to the timber frames being rotten and a danger of the glass roof killing someone,
My line to the grey BT box is at least 15yrs old it looked old when i moved in , on checking it i have found some superficial damage to the black outer sleeving  from the Glass that was on the old roof, and i little further towards the grey box the wire had a 90 degree kink in it at one of the few remaining clips that hold the wire onto the wall  at this point the outer sleeving has cracked open and the pairs can be seen so imo this could be a partial break in the pair too, This wire is attached to a wall at the side of the property  and there is a communal access for vehicles to several properties , so accessible to the public as not gated

Good job on the charge removal, luckily we were never charged for any line faults here in the past.

If you feel that there's significant damage to the line outside your house you must contact Openreach immediately.

[tommy45]

Problem OR aren't EU facing , But i have questioned about  who the responsibly lies with for the incoming line from BT grey box where the BT line plant comes out of the ground  and splits in the various 2 3 pair cables to each flat and the master socket in my home? I know that BT say about if you damage the cable outside in your garden  that you will be charged, but the cables on the outside of this building  aren't in any garden  So this is something that i would need to clarify before reporting a damaged cable, As getting money out of the coyboy builder or landlord  could be problematic, i could take it out of their vehicles or their faces but then i'm the bad guy then, I certainly won't be paying or to fix it

[William Grimsley]

Problem OR aren't EU facing , But i have questioned about  who the responsibly lies with for the incoming line from BT grey box where the BT line plant comes out of the ground  and splits in the various 2 3 pair cables to each flat and the master socket in my home? I know that BT say about if you damage the cable outside in your garden  that you will be charged, but the cables on the outside of this building  aren't in any garden  So this is something that i would need to clarify before reporting a damaged cable, As getting money out of the coyboy builder or landlord  could be problematic, i could take it out of their vehicles or their faces but then i'm the bad guy then, I certainly won't be paying or to fix it

I'm not sure about that, but it is good practice to report damage to Openreach equipment (lines, cabinets etc.).

[Black Sheep]

Problem OR aren't EU facing , But i have questioned about  who the responsibly lies with for the incoming line from BT grey box where the BT line plant comes out of the ground  and splits in the various 2 3 pair cables to each flat and the master socket in my home? I know that BT say about if you damage the cable outside in your garden  that you will be charged, but the cables on the outside of this building  aren't in any garden  So this is something that i would need to clarify before reporting a damaged cable, As getting money out of the coyboy builder or landlord  could be problematic, i could take it out of their vehicles or their faces but then i'm the bad guy then, I certainly won't be paying or to fix it

The question asked by Openreach will be ..... 'Is the damage inside your own curtilage ?", regardless of whether it's underground or overhead. For obvious reasons, OR cannot be held accountable for shoddy workmanship by others, that have damaged 'our' wire.

It would be down to your Landlord then to reimburse OR for the cost of renewal.

[tommy45]

There is no curtilage as there is no fences/walls/gates it is a shared entryway between properties that allows access to another property at the rear  and access to the rear of other properties , the cable is attached to the wall of the shopand runs to the front near the footpath that's where the bt grey box is  which houses the gel crimped pairs for all the lines to the 1st floor flat and shop and mine to , from there it goes ug   my flat is at the rear of the shop
This shared entryway is fully accessible to the public as said not gates fences ect

And whilst i have seen what i have regarding the condition of the cable to my nte, i cannot prove that the knob who the landlord got in to carry out the work  damaged the cable, He is unlikely to admit responsibility and landlord is unlikely to pay as it isn't his line and has zero to do with him, Then there is the age of the cable, i have lived at this address for 15yrs if not longer  and the cable was already there then,  but didn't come into the flat  so had been disconnected  at some point, So i had to pay for a new line install  back then and the cable was re used , It maybe 20yrs+old , but of course it is something that BT wont replace routinely  unless they have to,so matter how old and how deteriorated it may become over time everything has a limited usable lifespan