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[WWWombat]

I'm trying to trouble-shoot some behaviour on our network, but it has become too hodge-podge to do this easily - with some parts wired into the router (Billion 8800NL) and some wired (where they should be) into the back of the SamKnows testing whitebox. That box only has 4 ports, which just isn't enough...

The WiFi doesn't always seem to behave well. Nor the pesky powerline, so I also need to try to take these out of the equation too.

It is time I put a proper switch there, with some management facilities - particularly port mirroring, so I can measure data volume. IGMP snooping and/or QoS would be good, so multicast TV only goes out through the right port, with the right priority. VLANs might be useful too, but that's perhaps for further off. Perhaps I should consider energy efficiency too.

I'll then use some Pi's to perform network measurements too.

Does anyone have any comments to make about ethernet switches that fit the bill?

At first, I was also considering some PoE ports on the switch, and the Netgear GS108PE v3 seemed to fit the bill. A decent spec, with web management control, but only 8 ports (4 PoE) and costing around £76-80.

After the recent discussions on PoE (specifically some Ubiquiti models only using passive 24V PoE) I've decided that I'm not sure it is worth PoE ports on the switch. The Netgear GS108T v2 seems to be the model with the same management features, but only costing around £48-50.

But if I'm dropping PoE, I could also reduce the management options a little too. The Netgear GS108E has a lower specification in management, though seems to do what I need, and needs an application for that management. The advantage is that it comes in at £30.

The downside is that all of those switches come with only 8 ports, and I can see myself wanting access to 9 or 10 sometimes (and that's with a different switch in the office, and behind the TV). Netgear's range isn't anything like as wide for 16 port switches.

In fact, there seems to only be an equivalent to the 3rd 8-port switch above, with the lowest management specs. In 16-ports, it comes out at around £73-75.

If I was looking at more value for money, I'd consider TP-Link, but it looks like prices aren't that much different.

The TL-SG2210P seems to offer better spec PoE, but beyond what I would need. It also comes with 2 SFP ports, and is managed - but still rocks in at around £75.

Forgoing PoE again, TP-Link seem to have a good option for an 8-port "easy smart" switch with the TL-SG108E, at just £25.

Finally, jumping back up to a 16-port version, the TL-SG1016DE "easy smart" option, coming in at £64.

My mind is heading towards one of the two 16-port devices, and I can see at least one of the matching 8-port devices being acquired for the office.

Does anyone have anything to say about these device families? Or, indeed, any other equivalents?

In the meantime, I've just thought that I might want SNMP support, so I've got another aspect to investigate ...

[d2d4j]

Hi

I hope you don't mind, and I have used netgear switches before, but not a keen lover of them from a personal point of view, and tplink to me, always seem to run hot, but these are my opinion.

Have you looked at hp switches, the 1820 have QoS. However, it may very well be higher then you want to pay, but we have used hp switches for many many years, with only 1 been faulty, which was replaced next day by hp.

Also, just a thought, but does your router not allow port mirroring, and you should be able to monitor at source.

Also, the way our Sam knows box is wired, is hg612 to Sam knows box, Sam knows to draytek router, draytek to vlan'd switch (hp1810), and we have many external ip addresses, which feed many servers here

Many thanks

John 

[adrianw]

Whatever you go for, I would recommend more ports than you currently think you need.

I recently replaced my old second hand Cisco dumb 24 port GB central switch, having grown very tired of its screaming fan, with a Netgear GS724Tv4 ProSafe 24-port Gigabit Ethernet Smart Switch.
It is quiet, runs cool, and supports link aggregation (for FreeNAS FreeBSD 9 based systems, but FreeBSD 10 won't talk to it), and is warm rather than hot.
It has many advanced facilities that I doubt I will ever use.
I am not that keen on the web interface, but it is usable.

Two subsidiary switches (in other rooms, one on an Ethernet cable through the attic for the audiovisual gear, none of which does more than 100 Mb/s, and another on homeplugs in a lumber room/workshop) are dumb cheap as chips 8 port GB TP-Link switches. Painless to use.

[Weaver]

I bought a TP-Link managed switch some years ago, very sophisticated rich features set with docs written in git-hard Martian. I was just way too thick to be able to survive using these docs which proved an excellent way of semi-bricking the device in the sense that it became permanently sickly and full of evil, and I simply couldn't recover it. Not to be discouraged, I persevered and fully bricked the device.

The box also ran really hot.

If you have a huge brain, massive experience switch L2 security features and VLANs, and also read Martian fluently then worth a look as this box is top value for money.

[WWWombat]

Thanks for the replies so far...

I'm still investigating further, so I'll be back with more to say. However, I have to say that the HP devices don't look cheap!

[WWWombat]

Have you looked at hp switches, the 1820 have QoS. However, it may very well be higher then you want to pay, but we have used hp switches for many many years, with only 1 been faulty, which was replaced next day by hp.

I've looked now, and decided they're a bit expensive, compared to the switches I mentioned.

However, if I want to measure performance by reading SNMP, the netgear and tp-link ranges both need me to upgrade into their higher range switches. The HP 1820’s allow read-only SNMP - you only need to upgrade from them if you want writeable SNMP properties. With that, the 8-port HP comes into consideration, but not if I'm after 16 ports.

Also, just a thought, but does your router not allow port mirroring, and you should be able to monitor at source.

I hadn't thought of this, and searches don't leave me believing it is possible.

On the plus side, it would let me monitor the SamKnows traffic. On the negative side, it wouldn't let me monitor the internal network traffic - and I'd rather keep the flexibility to do that. If I could do both, at different times, that'd be great.

Also, the way our Sam knows box is wired, is hg612 to Sam knows box, Sam knows to draytek router, draytek to vlan'd switch (hp1810), and we have many external ip addresses, which feed many servers here

Really?

I'm very surprised that the SamKnows box works between the modem and router. I thought it needed to claim an IP address from a DHCP server, which ought not exist there; only PPPoE frames. I thought.

[WWWombat]

Whatever you go for, I would recommend more ports than you currently think you need.

I toyed with going for 2 8-ports - the Netgear's are sized such that they'd fit in the same space as 1 16-port, so it'd make for a stepped approach. But I think I should indeed go for one box for the central switch.

a Netgear GS724Tv4 ProSafe 24-port Gigabit Ethernet Smart Switch.
It is quiet, runs cool, and supports link aggregation (for FreeNAS FreeBSD 9 based systems, but FreeBSD 10 won't talk to it), and is warm rather than hot.
It has many advanced facilities that I doubt I will ever use.
I am not that keen on the web interface, but it is usable.

Ta. Adding SNMP requirements is now making me consider the GS716Tv3, also one of the smart switch range. It sounds a good possibility.

I've got some old Cisco's too - but I wouldn't dream of putting one in the house. They sound more like they're waiting to takeoff on runway 27R.

[adrianw]

I'm very surprised that the SamKnows box works between the modem and router. I thought it needed to claim an IP address from a DHCP server, which ought not exist there; only PPPoE frames. I thought.

It works for me. My setup is:
internal network with a DHCP server.
Samknows "white" box.
pFsense firewall, doing PPPoE through a HG612 on WAN1 (and also a backup connection to my works ADSL router on WAN2).
The DHCP server assigns a fixed address to the Samknows box, and also hands out the addresses of Plusnet's DNS servers.

The Samknows box seems to be so transparent that it doesn't care where it gets its address from (8-)
I was relieved that it works, as I didn't want to send the Samknows box back.

[d2d4j]

Hi

I also thought this setup allowed samknows to stop testing when it detects traffic, as it is last inline. Sorry if I'm wrong though

I'm sorry, I did state hp maybe outside price range, but there a lovely switch.

Many thanks

John

[phi2008]

Keep an eye out for Amazon open-box/used hardware if you want to save a few pennies. My main switch is a TP-LINK TL-SG3424 24-port which retails at £144 but I purchased, new but open box return, for £90. 

TP-LINK have the web and command line option if you prefer, reminds me of the Cisco IOS CLI, manual here - http://tplink-manuals.org/tplink-tl-sg3210-sg3216-sg3224-cli-reference-guide/

[WWWombat]

^{(oops, sorry Weaver. I had this reply done at the weekend, all ready to send. It has just sat on my tablet since then...)}

I bought a Netgear managed switch some years ago, very sophisticated rich features set with dice written in git-hard Martian. I was just way too thick to be able to survive using these docs which proved An excellent way of semi-bricking the device in the sense that it became permanently sickly and full of evil, and I simply couldn't recover it. Not to be discouraged, I persevered and fully bricked the device.

He he. I've, very embarrassingly, come as close to bricking a telephone exchange as it is possible to get, so you're in good company. Thank God it was smarter than me, and eventually discarded my changes to recover ... but it was a long embarrassed silence waiting for it to happen!

But I agree, the facilities on full managed switches can indeed be confusing. I'm trying to learn these features anyway (not via bad Taiwanese translations), so I hope I can get my head around them.

The box also ran really hot.

That's a little more worrying. I think most of the boxes report energy efficiency features, but I'll check a little more carefully.

[Weaver]

Bricking a telephone exchange would not be good. I feel for you - I've been in that kind of situation, or very near to it a number of times.

[WWWombat]

I also thought this setup allowed samknows to stop testing when it detects traffic, as it is last inline. Sorry if I'm wrong though

The intention for the SamKnows is that everything wired should go through the whitebox, and never be plugged into a box closer to the phone line. I don't think it really cares what pieces of equipment exists beyond that ... so long as they don't trigger any meaningful traffic.

The one exception is wireless. To fit with a model where the end-user has a single router/modem/wireless-access-point, the SamKnows box monitors wireless activity over the air - and only chooses to run tests if it doesn't see that activity. It doesn't know exactly which SSID is yours - so it must look at *everything*.

If I get the opportunity, I might try out the SamKnows box in different positions, and see what happens. I just need to keep a stable network for the wife's work...

[WWWombat]

Keep an eye out for Amazon open-box/used hardware if you want to save a few pennies. My main switch is a TP-LINK TL-SG3424 24-port which retails at £144 but I purchased, new but open box return, for £90. 

I hadn't really paid attention to their warehouse stuff before. Thanks for that 

[WWWombat]

I spent a little while longer looking at requirements here.

In all cases, the inclusion of SNMP as a means to even monitor the switch required a jump up a model level. I umm'ed for a while, before deciding that my main backbone switch probably merited it after all. That also made me decide a 16-port switch was worthwhile too.

Finally, I ended up plumping for the TP-Link model - partly because the TP-Link developers seemed just that little bit more responsive to fault reports.
http://www.tp-link.com/en/products/details/cat-40_TL-SG2216.html


@weaver ... I remember the posts last year about using fibre as lightning protection; this switch comes with 2 of the optical SFP module slots for such a purpose. I'm not sure it would fit with your setup with a firebrick, as you'd want that on the protected side. But it is another option for that kind of thing...

Once I have this running, next stop will probably to set up a Pi for monitoring, and finally sort out my PC's issues with DSL monitoring (by stopping it!).

I'll also get to try a flat cat 6 patch cable...