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[currytop]

I was asked to see if I could help an elderly friend to improve his ADSL broadband. He was getting about 300kbps download performance with the supplied Thompson router. A quick look at the router showed about 330kbps sync at around 6dB noise margin. He'd contacted his ISP who dispatched an engineer (assume OpenReach but don't know) who recorded 'a long line working as best it can' and left it at that. I looked at the house wiring which turned out to be a mess of diy extensions in a mix of star and daisy chain. Once I found where the incoming wiring connected to the house I disconnected everything and added a makeshift NTE5 and tried again with a direct connection to the router. Sync had jumped to 550kbps. Better but not as good as neighbours after I knocked on doors.

The line arrived overhead attached to the house wall near the bathroom but I couldn't see how or where any termination was routed. To cut a long story short I lifted boards in the landing and bathroom to trace the cable and eventually found the incoming pair arriving from under the floor under the bath. With a long mirror and torch I found a pressed steel box between the bath and wall which was the incoming termination. It had two knurled screws which I could just reach with a makeshift tool to release the cover. With a mirror I could just make out a filthy box but with what looked like a ferrite rod such as in a MW receiver with a coil and soldered tap, and what looked like a silver mica capacitor combined in a series shunt across the line. I've never seen anything like it before and wondered if anyone knows what it is? Sadly I didn't get a picture. It looks almost like an afterthought rather than a properly designed product.

I couldn't get at it with the bath in place but a hook on a piece of piano wire eventually broke the capacitor lead to open the filter. The router now syncs at 8Mbps so quite a result. I've left him a working phone and broadband but wondered what the correct course of action is for him now. He is concerned if contacting anyone might incur a repair bill. He doesn't have an NTE5 installed which I thought would have been done automatically when ordering broadband. The house extensions need cleaning up which I could probably do for him if the incoming was properly terminated.

Thoughts?

[Weaver]

What a fantastic result. You deserve a pat on the back definitely.

[AArdvark]

Blinding piece of detective work !!
I would be well pleased with that result.
Very well done.

Wouldn't any likely problem be an opportunity to resite the incoming cable, seeing as it is so inaccessible anyway.
Probably why the OR engineer said ' ... working as best it can' because he could not get at the entry point either !!


Sent from my LG G3 via Tapatalk (Typos & bad formatting are free)

[Ronski]

I'd agree with AArdvark, resite the incoming cable to a proper NTE5 with filter plate, then run extensions to suitable locations for phone and broadband. Depending on how long the drop wire is will limit where you can move it to - perhaps if it won't reach a suitable location in the house then the loft might suffice, but it needs to be within easy reach of the loft hatch when standing on the loft ladder, as that's as far as a BT Engineer will venture into the loft.

[JGO]

From the description it sounds as if someone installed a series tuned notch filter across the line. A bit of enquiry  if there once was a local source of spot frequency  interference might be illuminating !!

 

[HPsauce]

A friend of mine had a similar (though not quite as difficult) problem due to a mix of modern and we think 1950's wiring. And an incoming drop wire and termination (at a junction box) in a really bizarre place with the master elsewhere.

Fortunately it was possible for an "engineer" to move the strain relief support (one of those curly pigtail things) a couple of feet to a nearby but better location just under the guttering by a window, while supporting the wire temporarily. Luckily the pole it came from was also on private property, no public land was crossed by it.
The dropwire was then pulled back from its old termination, moved across to the new strain relief and fed through a new hole in the exterior wall to a much better NTE location.

After a complete internal rewire speed improved massively, similar to above.

How is the drop wire terminated/supported where it reaches the property and is there a joint before it gets to the box under the bath?

[currytop]

How is the drop wire terminated/supported where it reaches the property and is there a joint before it gets to the box under the bath?

I can't actually see the end of the overhead cable where it attaches to the house as it's concealed by foliage & tree branches. He's lived there over 58 years and when asked does vaguely remember some sort of ghostly radio reception on the phone back then. So the guess for a radio notch filter sounds likely. The best thing would be if the overhead was reattached to the house to give access into the loft as it could then be easily routed to an NTE5 in the room he uses as a study which is also reasonably convenient for routing to the extensions. I'm loath to do the external work myself as I don't want to cause any possible future issue between him & OR, but would be prepared to do so if that was the only way to avoid him incurring costs. Trouble is I'm only 15 years younger than he is! It is of course the responsibility of OR but he doesn't want to pay for them to do any re-siting. With the lie of the cable I'm not sure if the current line would reach the gable end for the loft. It would probably be easier to clear the foliage and check if there was some sort of existing external termination box there that could be used to re-route with new cable into the loft. Actually he's happy as things are now but it's a bodge and I feel responsible for leaving him with a 'proper' configuration. I ran out of time to do anything better on the day.

What sort of cable is used to run externally, I'm presuming not CW1308? I might find some CW1128 if I rummage in my spares box. What sort of external weatherproof j-box?

[burakkucat]

Excellent investigative work! 

The fitting of an NTE5/A will be an Openreach FOC task as the circuit is currently non-standard. It will have to be requested via the ISP/CP as a circuit normalisation/provision of a network demarcation point. As part of the task, the engineer may well intercept the pre-existing external cable, fit a waterproof external junction and then run a new length of external grade cable to enter the property at the location of the new NTE5/A. All the abandoned cabling, etc, can then be removed at a later date.

Depending upon circumstances, an external junction may be made by crimped connections in a pre-existing BT16 or BT66 (for example), a new BT66 might be fitted or the usage of a "sausage" (see here for an example).

[HPsauce]

Good points. I guess the obscuring foliage will need to be trimmed back first to allow:
a) confirmation of routing/entry/joints
b) access for BTOR engineers

[currytop]

If it should be FOC I'll call them tomorrow as he's a little deaf, and sadly lost his wife suddenly last year. That would be an excellent result for him. He was with F2S some years ago but I think it's now part of the TT empire.

How accommodating will OR be as to siting of the NTE5/A? Would they be prepared to go into the loft and drill down into the room below? Or would there be any advantage to my running cable beforehand to the favoured location and leaving it for them to terminate and fix?

Looks like I'll have to conquer my aversion to ladders and clear the way to the house wall!

[burakkucat]

Ideally Black Sheep would be the best person to answer with the current Openreach policy but I'll have a go . . .

Lofts are a big "no". 

Provision of the appropriate grade cable (CW1308 or above, for internal cabling), routed as per the end-user's requirements to the site where the NTE5/A is required (with a sufficient length left free for termination) and likewise to pick-up the pre-existing external service feed, would be acceptable.

If the wiring is as old as your description implies, the engineer my decide to replace the current service feed/aerial drop cable and connect to the newly provided, above.

[currytop]

If the overhead line remains in place it would need about 5 metres of external cable to reach the loft and then probably a further 10 metres of CW1308 to a new NTE5/A. I could probably route CW1308 internally under the floor from the intended NTE5 location to the existing RF filter box/termination point and leave a few feet poked through the wall for them to connect to the external line, but there's no accessible place on that wall for an internal termination box. I don't know if they'd accept some part of the CW1308 being external.  If they were smart they could place an external j-box over where the cable exits so the cable wouldn't strictly be external.

Just thinking aloud...

[burakkucat]

I don't know if they'd accept some part of the CW1308 being external.  If they were smart they could place an external j-box over where the cable exits so the cable wouldn't strictly be external.

Having thought about a similar situation, I reached the same conclusion.

Looking critically (as I have done) over that last N years, it is surprising the lengths of definitely CW1308 cable one can see in external usage. (It is the effect of the sun's UV radiation upon the sheath that causes the degradation. If the cable is always in the shade -- north facing wall, under the eves, etc -- then CW1308 cable may just be acceptable.)

[currytop]

If the wiring is as old as your description implies, the engineer my decide to replace the current service feed/aerial drop cable and connect to the newly provided, above.

You're not wrong - all the cable is old! Everything in the house is old! Until recently much of the power cabling was lead sheathed rubber cable! Undid a ceiling rose and rubber dust fell out leaving bare wires back to the lead sheath.

[burakkucat]

Until recently much of the power cabling was lead sheathed rubber cable! Undid a ceiling rose and rubber dust fell out leaving bare wires back to the lead sheath.

Eek! That reminds me of the house in which I was born . . .