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[ryan2390]

Hello All

On the 1st of November 2015 I went to the BT Wholesale checker website and input my phone number to take a screenshot of the result so a person I was helping knew what to look for and I noticed 'WBC FTTP'. Having been at Openreach constantly for the last two years trying to find out if then what and when I felt like a kid at Christmas! The following morning I got on the phone to BT our ISP and placed the order. It should be noted this isn't the easiest thing to do and the person I spoke to reckoned the Home Hub 5 had a port for a terminated optical fibre but I digress. We were given two dates for visits by OR engineers. The external work to bring the fibre to the house was scheduled for the 11th of November and the internal work for the 22nd of November. Having read Tom Goskar's brilliant 2 part blog about his FTTP installation I was looking forward to observing it for myself.

However on the afternoon of the 2nd and quite why I can't remember but I started thinking about ducting and the fact that save the nearest access chamber there is no sign of ducting at the house so I dragged my father out and we went hunting for signs of any ducting from the nearest chamber. This was when we found out there was only armored cable between the chamber and the house. No matter I thought as it wouldn't be all that difficult to install some ducting and bring it to the house. Oh wrong I was!

On the 30th of November my mother and I were returning from a local town to find two OR vans and engineers talking to my father. After speaking to them they informed us that there is no ducting where our phone line goes across the green. It was their opinion that the cable needed replacing with ducting anyway and I got the impression OR are trying to do away with armored cables. These gentlemen suggested that OR could either install ducting alongside the existing cable route and/or install ducting all the way along the side of the green where the houses are. At this point any hope of having FTTP by Christmas vanished and my bubble burst.

Being a bit of a night owl I don't often rise before 10am and on the morning of the 3rd of December I got a call on the cordless phone intercom that we were getting a visit from an OR surveyor. I don't think I've lept out of bed and been downstairs so quick in recent times! My father and I ended up following the route of our phone line with the surveyor showing him where the armored hangs freely alongside the village pond outflow, to the access chambers, across the green to another then across the main road and back again. We learned that save a bit of ducting from the main road to the first chamber on the green and another short stretch under the access track to our properties it was all armored cable. The surveyor was of the opinion to just install ducting alongside the existing cable. After parting company with him he remained in the village for some time taking notes.

On the 16th of December we received a call from the estate office wanting to know why OR were asking to dig up the village green. I had to explain as best I could why and what we had ordered and with the help of the Windows 7 snipping tool made a very crude map and sent that off to them including a description of what needed doing by email. By this time I had also contacted a neighbour who is on the parish council and as it turns out had also ordered FTTP. Thankfully she has been liaising with the estate as I find them too 'posh' for my liking. I have been told that the issue of poor broadband and that it has been for some time an agenda item on every meeting.

This week though I received an email from my neighbour that suggested the estate only want OR to dig the green up once. Being of a pessimistic nature and having waited so long and now a possibility of FTTP being killed off by difficult landowners I was not all impressed. I was reminded that the estate is probably only trying to minimise disruption and do what is best for the village. That said I still believe that the estate manager does not grasp just what is involved in bringing FTTP to a house. So currently we are between a rock and a hard place. At worst the estate want OR to install ducting to every house whether they have ordered FTTP or not which I cannot see happening and at best they are agreeable to installing ducting to the chamber and then ducting from there to those that want it in the future.

Weaver has made it quite clear that he is rather envious of me yet at the moment it is not clear one way of the other when work will even start if it does at all. Yes I should be more optimistic but I have learned not to get excited in these matters and especially so when the local landowner is involved and can't do simple jobs 

Anyway that is the story so far. I can tell you that I am still erring on the side of it going ahead and that I am exceedingly looking forward to having one of the fastest connections in Surrey. If BT live up to their promise of 330Mbps down we will have a faster connection than VM customers and boy will I see what it can do. I don't think I've missed anything out other than...

Any questions?


P.S. Please find attached a copy of the BTW checker for my line and the little snippet that comes under it. Think BT need to re define 'issues'

[Ronski]

The above clearly sums up why full fttp is not a viable option yet, especially for places that are lacking ducts or overhead cables.

Hopefully things will progress quickly for you,  does anything show on roadworks.org for your area?

[Weaver]

Weaver wishes you all the very very best and hopes to be able to enjoy the eventual result vicariously.

[ryan2390]

The above clearly sums up why full fttp is not a viable option yet, especially for places that are lacking ducts or overhead cables.

Hopefully things will progress quickly for you,  does anything show on roadworks.org for your area?

Unfortunately not. Still waiting for OR and the estate to sort themselves out.

AS for full FTTP it wouldn't be as bad I suspect if they didn't have to deal with the landowner. But we will find out soon hopefully!

[Weaver]

General question: is BT at the mercy of each landowner regarding the routing of cables?

[WWWombat]

I agree with Ronski - it is issues like this that can kill off FTTP stone dead. No wonder BT are favouring G.Fast ... it'll probably only need delays of another year or so before they might choose to deploy that for you instead!

General question: is BT at the mercy of each landowner regarding the routing of cables?

Yes, and "mercy" is a good choice of word. It needs a wayleave agreement that allows them to run the cable/duct *and* to come back and maintain it. And BT generally have to pay an annual rent too.

That is why BT tend to prefer following roads, pavements and verges - they already have the necessary rights there, even if it makes it far more expensive to actually dig.

It ends up being the key difference between someone like BT, and someone like B4RN. B4RN depends on good-natured landowners giving them wayleaves for free. Landowners might be persuaded of this in a community non-profit scheme, especially if they get decent broadband themselves, but not in a commercial venture. Oh, definitely not if there's a sniff of money about - look at Vodafone's arguments about the costs they incur for mobile masts.

This week though I received an email from my neighbour that suggested the estate only want OR to dig the green up once. Being of a pessimistic nature and having waited so long and now a possibility of FTTP being killed off by difficult landowners I was not all impressed.

Did discussions with the surveyor include ownership of the green? Did anyone mention that it might be difficult to proceed? If so, he might have chosen a route via the road. Or even, perish the thought, by putting up poles (government relaxation of planning rules means they can do this now).

Some of the issues might be dealt with by understanding the routes that the cables for the other homes take. They aren't likely to follow a 100% different route - which would have needed to be dug sometime in the past. It is more likely they share a single trench for at least some of the route. If so, perhaps the surveyor has planned to dig the common trench, and put a chamber at your side of the green for future orders to run into.

Finally, you could of course talk to all the affected neighbours, to offer them the chance to have their line dug in on such a "once in a lifetime" occasion.

[Weaver]

> Finally, you could of course talk to all the affected neighbours, to offer them the chance to have their line dug in on such a "once in a lifetime" occasion.

If you are an optimist then you might hope that this is a very persuasive point the once-in-a-lifetime point.

[ryan2390]

I agree with Ronski - it is issues like this that can kill off FTTP stone dead. No wonder BT are favouring G.Fast ... it'll probably only need delays of another year or so before they might choose to deploy that for you instead!

*snip*

Did discussions with the surveyor include ownership of the green? Did anyone mention that it might be difficult to proceed? If so, he might have chosen a route via the road. Or even, perish the thought, by putting up poles (government relaxation of planning rules means they can do this now).

Some of the issues might be dealt with by understanding the routes that the cables for the other homes take. They aren't likely to follow a 100% different route - which would have needed to be dug sometime in the past. It is more likely they share a single trench for at least some of the route. If so, perhaps the surveyor has planned to dig the common trench, and put a chamber at your side of the green for future orders to run into.

Finally, you could of course talk to all the affected neighbours, to offer them the chance to have their line dug in on such a "once in a lifetime" occasion.

Unfortunately we live in a conservation area so I highly doubt they would be given permission to erect poles across the green. Although I have been told that Openreach are trying to get shot of the poles by an engineer. Short of asking about poles next time I speak to BT Retail I do not know of a way to verify this information.

As for speaking to neighbours the parish council decided at their first meeting of the year that it would "probably be best that a few of is 'successfully' got it first!" and that a few of the other council members had already placed orders. I also see in this email that the estate manager said that he "wanted assurances from BT that it would be a one time digging of the green and wouldn't involve more digging each time someone new wanted infinity".

Quite how Openreach would do this I don't know. I would be prepared to stick my neck out and say there are no more than four feeds from the main road to the houses on the green. One for myself and aforementioned neighbour and potentially another three for the other houses. If the weather is agreeable tomorrow/later I may go out on the pretense of walking one of the dogs and look signs of cable routes. This is one of those times where having a contact at Openreach whom I could speak to directly would be incredibly helpful. My neighbour is planning on calling the estate office this week so I will know more after she has done so hopefully.

As for g.fast I don't think we would be any better off. I have been told be a couple of engineers that there are very few good spare pairs in the armored cable that feeds my house and our immediate neighbours to the point that a previous engineer actually had issues finding a good one to put us onto during a previous fault. Again this I cannot confirm this but it is what I have been told.

At this point I am just waiting to see what happens after my neighbour contacts the estate. I am due to get an update from BT Retail on the 18th also which may provide some more information. It is rather frustrating when I have seen the folks at B4RN installing FTTH and I know that by comparison the physical job is much easier...or at least it appears so to me.

Don't you just love red tape? 

[Weaver]

This is exactly why we need government intervention, the equivalent of a compulsory purchase by the state to give BT the right to run fibre and only fibre not copper as that is a once in a generation national infrastructure upgrade and a change from 19C technology.

[ryan2390]

This is exactly why we need government intervention, the equivalent of a compulsory purchase by the state to give BT the right to run fibre and only fibre not copper as that is a once in a generation national infrastructure upgrade and a change from 19C technology.

Indeed. I'd also go a step further to say that any new housing developments should have FTTH instead of copper.

[ryan2390]

Hello All,

Quick update. Not heard much useful from Openreach except they are waiting on someone else to give permission which I take to be the council. I haven't heard from my neighbour but thought I'd fill you in on what little more I know.

According to the OR engineer out we had out the other day for a fault on the copper line councils can take ages but once they approve Openreach get moving sharpish. Not convinced but still. Remains to be seen!

Just a short update but didn't want you to think I'd forgotten about this thread

Ryan

[burakkucat]

Just a short update . . .

Which is appreciated.

[waltergmw]

@ryan,

Cold comfort for you, but those out at Jayes Park are fed from the only PCP, complete with its FTTC, just outside the Forest Green exchange; they only have an ADSL Max estimate of 2 Mbps plus the nebulous FoD 330 FTTH.

Kind regards,
Walter

[ryan2390]

Dear All,

I had a phone call this afternoon whilst having my lunch from BT. They wanted to tell me that BT had accepted the costs from Openreach and that work will be starting as soon as possible. Possibly this week or next week with completion date 41 days after they start. So it's looking very positive now and I hope to have some pictures for you when I see them working.

RYan

[burakkucat]

Some good news. 

Please ensure that your camera is operational, as a visual record of the process will be appreciated.