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Author Topic: Plusnet Low & High cost area  (Read 25260 times)

sheephouse

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Re: Plusnet Low & High cost area
« Reply #45 on: January 08, 2016, 06:06:16 PM »

@sheephouse take a look at Andrews and Arnold and their Home::1T (Terabyte allowance) deal. Iirc this FTTC deal uses only TalkTalk Wholesale special backhaul, so that they can provide such a high traffic allowance at a half reasonable cost.

There are good ISPs out there, there is also BTW Premium for an extra £12 per line per month. (aka 'elevated' on 21CN iirc? Something like that.)
Unfortunately A&A would cost me £178 per month for an unlimited ADSLMax Premium connection. There is no ADSL2, FTTC, or any LLU available - that's what makes it a Market A area.
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NewtronStar

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Re: Plusnet Low & High cost area
« Reply #46 on: January 08, 2016, 06:58:40 PM »

FTTC IMHO is a grey area, because many of the cabs connect to a head end exchange which isnt necessarily the same exchange as PSTN and could have different Market ratings.  The local exchange could be Market A, yet the head end exchange could be market B where an ISP such as Sky could take the the dsl if they wanted because they have a presence there... but not the phone line to do Full MPF.

It is exactly that situation which is bugging N*Star and prompted him to start this thread. As he has previously mentioned his local telephony serving exchange and his fibre head end exchange in the open forum, then for a real-life example take a look at the Ofcom classifications of Helens Bay (telephony) and Bangor (fibre head end) in Northern Ireland.  :-\

Indeed Kitz thats my issue the montly cost of broadband is nearly twice the price per month than 90% of the UK if those percentages are correct  :-\

Contacted MP and was advised to gather up a petition in this area which is not my thing  :no: but you did give me a glimmer of hope when you posted this ->

I think the whole thing is now out dated and needs a total overhaul.   Too much has changed within the UK broadband industry since the last review.     There have been too many mergers which mean that things like "Four or more principal operators" for a market 3 exchange is a bit ridiculous and there isnt any clarification about fttc and use of head end exchanges.   :)
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aesmith

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Re: Plusnet Low & High cost area
« Reply #47 on: January 09, 2016, 08:04:09 AM »

There is no ADSL2, FTTC, or any LLU available - that's what makes it a Market A area.

Is that the case?  If so then it stinks even more, because BT would have a clear incentive not to upgrade exchanges to 21CN.   I actually thought it was the presence of absence of LLU that made the distinction, but I can see the logic for including FTTC because once that's available presumably nobody's going to be interested in LLU.
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aesmith

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Re: Plusnet Low & High cost area
« Reply #48 on: January 09, 2016, 08:14:47 AM »

Just did a quick sample and it appears that 21CN does not change matters.   Checking a local exchange (Udny NSUDN) it shows as 21CN with FTTC in some areas, however it's still listed as "Market 1" "Market2014 A", same as our own exchange.  Checking Plusnet price for the local pub, yes it's a high priced area.
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NewtronStar

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Re: Plusnet Low & High cost area
« Reply #49 on: January 09, 2016, 08:25:58 PM »

Checking a local exchange (Udny NSUDN) it shows as 21CN with FTTC in some areas, however it's still listed as "Market 1" "Market2014 A", same as our own exchange.  Checking Plusnet price for the local pub, yes it's a high priced area.

Well then it must be ISP LLU equipment that classes an Exchange as a low priced area for broadband even if the a provider like Plusnet which is not a LLU'd provider as far as I know unlike TT or SKY then it's classed as B
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NewtronStar

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Re: Plusnet Low & High cost area
« Reply #50 on: January 09, 2016, 08:52:24 PM »

Can anyone shed light on an exchange that is classed as E ?

Broadband Access†

Market 1

BTw Pricing Band

Band E
« Last Edit: January 09, 2016, 09:00:06 PM by NewtronStar »
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burakkucat

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Re: Plusnet Low & High cost area
« Reply #51 on: January 09, 2016, 09:55:00 PM »

Can anyone shed light on an exchange that is classed as E ?

No, sorry.  :no:  Where have you seen that classification?

For comparison purposes, here are links to what SamKnows about --
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NewtronStar

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Re: Plusnet Low & High cost area
« Reply #52 on: January 09, 2016, 10:55:09 PM »

Can anyone shed light on an exchange that is classed as E ?

No, sorry.  :no:  Where have you seen that classification?

For comparison purposes, here are links to what SamKnows about --

From my local exchange using http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/broadbandchecker.php
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burakkucat

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Re: Plusnet Low & High cost area
« Reply #53 on: January 09, 2016, 11:31:43 PM »

From my local exchange using http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/broadbandchecker.php

Ah, I see. Kitz uses, I believe, the same database as SamKnows but with further processing, etc.

So for comparison purposes, I attach the same screen-scraped data block for NIBA (using the telephone number & the postcode of the Green Chilli Indian Restaurant, 32 Dufferin Av, Bangor, BT20 3AA), for EABSE (using the telephone number & the postcode of The Cattery) and for NSBFD (using one of the telephone numbers & the postcode for Weaver-land).

So we need to know about the different BTw pricing bands and the criteria thereof.

Also, notice that Sam's database is incorrect -- for NSBFD, it shows 21CN is not available. We know it is now available, as Weaver has had his circuits migrated across. :)
« Last Edit: January 09, 2016, 11:37:54 PM by burakkucat »
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NewtronStar

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Re: Plusnet Low & High cost area
« Reply #54 on: January 10, 2016, 01:14:52 AM »

Many thanks for doing the compare.com stuff  ;) as you can see the BTw pricing falls into two bands A & E low price and high priced areas.

As first thought it's BTw that decide which exchange is a low or high priced area thats who we need to probe to get this down right discrimination issue changed  :fingers:
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gt94sss2

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Re: Plusnet Low & High cost area
« Reply #55 on: January 10, 2016, 02:55:39 AM »

Many thanks for doing the compare.com stuff  ;) as you can see the BTw pricing falls into two bands A & E low price and high priced areas.

As first thought it's BTw that decide which exchange is a low or high priced area thats who we need to probe to get this down right discrimination issue changed  :fingers:

I think you are comparing apples with oranges. Ofcom and only Ofcom decide if an exchange is a high cost or low cost one.

When they first launched this system years ago they used Market 1, 2 and 3 (and 'Hull' which most ignore) to categorise exchanges.

They then changed to using Market A and B in 2013 - so even references to Market 1,2 and 3 which one still sees used are not really correct any more.

Even if an exchange gains more LLU etc between each Ofcom review it does not move categories until Ofcom carries out its next review - its not an automatic/dynamic process. This issue used to come up quite a bit when LLU was being actively rolled out as some wondered why the category of their exchange didn't change sooner.

BTW Pricing Band E is nothing to do with this process -I stand to be corrected but I believe it reflects how far you are from the nearest fibre node - with the distance determining the charge band one faces if they want FTTPoD (at least in areas where it is available so not Weaver-land)
« Last Edit: January 10, 2016, 03:05:04 AM by gt94sss2 »
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Weaver

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Re: Plusnet Low & High cost area
« Reply #56 on: January 10, 2016, 04:25:05 AM »

Sobs quietly . :no: :'(
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ejs

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Re: Plusnet Low & High cost area
« Reply #57 on: January 10, 2016, 07:01:20 AM »

The column headings in the WBC Price List spreadsheet are:

Market B (billing exchange band A)
Market A (billing exchange band E)

as if to imply that they are just different terms for the same thing.
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burakkucat

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Re: Plusnet Low & High cost area
« Reply #58 on: January 10, 2016, 04:28:38 PM »

Thank you.  :)

So, essentially, where SamKnows shows Market 1, we should read it as Market A with a billing exchange band E and where SamKnows shows Market 3, we should read it as Market B with a billing exchange band A.

Quote from: Walter Scott, Marmion, Canto VI, XVII
    Oh, what a tangled web we weave
    When first we practise to deceive!
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kitz

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Re: Plusnet Low & High cost area
« Reply #59 on: January 10, 2016, 07:50:01 PM »

I just noticed something else which could muddy the water further.

Whilst the port costs for the 2 markets may now be the same, the AP costs (which form part of the MSIL) vary depending upon the Market type.
Im going from the WBC price list as I dont have a current WBMC one... but it will have to be factored into WBMC and will form part of the WBMC charges.

Look

Code: [Select]
AP national coverage (combined with IPsC CP Handover option) - Market A 12 Months 01/07/2014 Month £20,968.00
AP national coverage (combined with IPsC CP Handover option) - Market B 12 Months 01/07/2014 Month £6,532.00

So if this is the case then, although port costs are now the same, it looks like the pricing differential is now made at the access point to the backhaul, rather than on the ports.  AP costs will apply to both 21CN and FTTC  :(



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